New S&W 351 PD FTF...Please Help!

pvq · Aug 13, 2009

I am writing to ask your collective opinions as I have never before owned a 22 magnum.

Yesterday I purchased a S&W 351PD. Today I went to the range for a quick function fire using Remington 40 Grain Win Mag Rounds. Basically, the gun failed to fire twice in 35 rounds. In both cases, a second pull of the trigger on the round that failed to detonate resulted in a discharge.

I had always been under the impression that 22 Magnum ammunition was somewhat more reliable than 22LR. Unfortunately, I only had 35 rounds with me to function test or I would have tried another box.

Does this seem highly unusual to anyone else? I'm thinking the gun should go back to S&W for the once over...what do you think???

P.S.- I REALLY like the 351PD...its a sweet shooter!

mnrivrat · Aug 14, 2009

I will say this much - The rimfire guns are less reliable for ignition than the center fire guns (IMHO) . The reason being is that it takes more to set off the rim fire priming material. The rims have to be thicker than the center fire primers.

Should it go back to S&W ? I think the short answer is yes it should. It may improve with break in, but there is no way of counting on that. They should function with 100% reliability out of the box.

Dale53 · Aug 14, 2009

pvq;
Before you send your revolver back to the factory for a check up, try another brand of ammo. Rimfire ammunition is notorious for variable quality. I shot small bore competition for years and it was NOT uncommon to find a brand of rimfire or even a particular lot of a specific brand that experienced misfires when another lot did not. And this was with RIFLES with their much stronger, striker fired, firing pins.

I am not personally familiar with your particular Smith (I know which one it is but I have not shot one). However, there are a couple of things you might do - check the weight of pull of both single and double action. Sometimes a spring kit is installed and will reduce the hammer strike too much to be reliable (if you bought this one new and haven't changed it then, that won't be the case).

In center fires, Smith has gone a bit overboard (in my opinion) trying to beat the California "drop standard" and some revolvers have been fit with "too short" firing pins. If you are comfortable taking your revolver apart, they are easily changed for a longer pin. If you are not, then calling Smith and having them send you a shipping label will be the solution (if that IS the problem).

First, try other brands of ammo. Then, if the problem persists, send it back.

Dale53

rburg · Aug 14, 2009

I'm not going to say its common, but it does happen. 22 ammo has become pretty undependable compared with what it was 40 or so years ago. I see a progression where it just keeps degrading.

You did the right thing by trying a second hammer fall. That pretty much excludes ammo without any priming compound spun into the rim - pretty common with cheap lr ammo.

With centerfire ammo, we usually suggest you move to Federal brand for a box or two and see if the problem resolves itself. It could be hard brass in the Winny cases, a common problem with their primers.

Its up to you if you want to send the gun back. If you find a brand of ammo that works 100%, just use that instead of the brand that seems to be undependable. Its how I'd handle it.

A while back a buddy bought a 22 Auto Mag Magnum. It was the most picky of any gun I've ever found. To help him out, I just went around and bought all the different brands and vintages of 22 Mag I could find. I ended up with a pretty good collection of partially used boxes. It was fun. My 351 seems to fire everything OK.

You might even discover another production lot of 22 mag ammo, same bullet, will work well for you. If it were me, I'd go shopping. One box of several different brands. Then go shooting. I wouldn't surprise me a bit to find the gun likes all the other brands of ammo.

pvq · Aug 14, 2009

Thank you very much for your replies. I called S&W and the service rep I spoke to seemed to agree that twice in 35 rounds was a bit much...especially considering that the rounds went off the second time. I should note that I've used these rounds in an NAA Pug with no issues. As I said, this is my first (non-NAA) 22 magnum...but I have some experiance with 22LR, and the firing pin on this 351 just seems to me to be a little short. I don't have a micrometer or anything...it just seems so. Perhaps a minute deviation in manufacturing tolerances is to blame?

I am going to err on the side of caution and return the gun to S&W for the once over. I bought this gun for "light duty" CCW, and to have a relatively "recoil free" CCW option in anticipation of a time when I can no longer handle the considerable recoil of a 38+P in an airweight revolver....so I want to make sure it works!

I'll say this much....it is a sweet shooter and I can see it becoming my favorite snubbie! It is effortless (not considering the heavy trigger pull) to put seven in the 10 ring at 7 yards thanks to the practically non-existant recoil. The gun comes right back on target. I really love it! I'll also add that I think 7 rounds of 22 Magnum within 7 yards would be more than adequate for 99.997% of personal protection situations which might likely arise (I know this last line will result in some flames)

On another note the S&W CS people are super helpful, friendly and courteous...that is very encouraging to me.

Jerry in SC · Aug 14, 2009

The quality of .22 Magnum ammo has been pretty good. I did have an issue with a 651 (when originally introduced) and CCI ammo. They wouldn't seat completely in the cylinder. The most accurate is the old 33 grain Remington Premier and the CCI/Hornady 30 grain V-Max.

In agreement with Dale53, in order to meet the "drop testing" standard, I suspect S&W shortened the firing pins.

smitholdtimer · Aug 14, 2009

.22 MRF Revolvers & Ammo

pvq, I share your assessment of the .22 Magnum Caliber, in fact, I am fixated with the smaller caliber Smith revolvers. I have enjoyed the Model 650 for the same purpose and am very pleased. Your decision to involve the Factory is, in my opinion, a very good one, glad they are cooperating on the repair. Good shooting!

Engine49guy · Aug 14, 2009

pvq said:
..."twice in 35 rounds was a bit much...especially considering that the rounds went off the second time.
I am going to err on the side of caution ...
I bought this gun for "light duty" CCW, and to have a relatively "recoil free" CCW option in anticipation of a time when I can no longer handle the considerable recoil of a 38+P in an airweight revolver....so I want to make sure it works!
.

Just wanted to add that I recently have heard many shooters complaining about a noticed increase of problematic rimfire ammo.
There are many theories as to why, none really matter much.
What matters most is when you pull the trigger the gun goes
"BANG!" ....Especially for a CCW or BUG .

Although a revolver gives you a second chance to fire over an auto loader,
I want the highest probability it will shoot the first time everytime.
Rimfire ammo IMO just can not do that as well as centerfire ammo.

If the problem persists you may consider trying a Smith snub in .32 long or .32 H&R magnum.

.32 is far less punishing than .38 special.
You get 6 shots from the J frame instead of 5,
Centerfire ammo is more reliable,
Option of shooting .32 long or .32 short.
Although 22 mag is faster the .32 projectile is much more lethal.

Bottom line is you can have the same Smith J frame airweight with better reliability (ammo) and higher lethality.
Its a win win situation.
Whatever happens Good luck!

Repellere · Aug 14, 2009

While I haven't tried any Remington's in my 351, I am never surprised when a Remington rimfire fails to fire. In over a dozen different rimfire handguns and rifles, the Remington cartridge always keep me on my toes and ready to peform a FTF drill . . . No wonder it is the only rimfire collecting dust on the shelf at Walmart . . . Can't find Winchester or Federal anywhere.

rburg · Aug 15, 2009

Glockist said:
I am never surprised when a Remington rimfire fails to fire.

Sadly, I'm starting to agree with your statement. It wasn't always like that. It seems they've started to control costs at the expense of quality control. The really expensive part will be getting their old customers back again. As long as we have ammo shortages, they will probably be able to sell their lower quality products.

The other makers have a great opportunity here. They can move ahead of one of the major and premier players in the market because of it. I can remember when Federal was mostly considered a 2nd tier player, much like CCI. Now the roles have been shuffled and most of us consider CCI and Federal to be top shelf items, much like Winchester. Many of us are getting to the point where we think of Remington in the same class as Wolf. They've only themselves to blame.

s&wchad · Aug 15, 2009

Worth a try...

.22 Magnums seem to foul fairly quickly, causing difficult extraction and issues seating subsequent cartridges. If the cartridge isn’t all the way in the chamber (but enough to close the cylinder), the impact can be softened as the round moves forward in the chamber when the hammer falls. Get a slightly oversized bore brush and scrub out the chambers and try it again. Make sure you clean under the extractor star too.

mtheo · Aug 16, 2009

351pd ftf

My 351PD failed 4 out of seven rounds per cylinder right out of the box. S&W replaced the firing pin and it has been good to go with anything I put through it.

While they had it I had them install a bodyguard hammer like my 317-2, to make it more snag resistant. Please note with the bodyguard hammer it is much more difficult to cock for single action. They do return your original hammer so you could reinstall it if you change your mind.

Dogmann · Oct 24, 2009

I had to send mine back to SW... got it back in a week!

Dogmann · Dec 22, 2009

Has anyone had more issues with this light weight 22mag? Why is this one so prone to problems?

Dogmann · Dec 22, 2009

mtheo said:
My 351PD failed 4 out of seven rounds per cylinder right out of the box. S&W replaced the firing pin and it has been good to go with anything I put through it.

While they had it I had them install a bodyguard hammer like my 317-2, to make it more snag resistant. Please note with the bodyguard hammer it is much more difficult to cock for single action. They do return your original hammer so you could reinstall it if you change your mind.

Do you have a pic of this hammer on the gun?

mtheo · Jan 22, 2010

with body guard hammer

mtheo · Jan 25, 2010

Cross section of my FTF

I can not remember any CCI magnum rimfire failing to fire for me that was not a problem with the gun. Winchester and Federal have always been reliable. Last summer I purchased a couple of boxes of "new pointed soft point" Remington cartridges. I had several misfires through both my pistols and one of my rifles. I stopped using them and went back to my SuperX and CCI. The CCI Maxi Mag+V has always been reliable...a cannot remember a FTF with this cartridge.

After reading opinions concerning reliability of the rimfire type cartridge I dug out last summers Remingtons and fired a few rounds until I obtained an FTF.

The bottom Remington cartridge casing was the FTF the top casing was apparently a good cartridge.

hudsonvalley · May 29, 2010

I'm willing to bet that you didn't pull the trigger back enough to hit the primer hard enough to ignite, BUT, you you did pull it back enough to make a small indent on the case....my daughter was doing it over and over with my 351....told her to pull all the way....very hard trigger because of the strong spring....

ewayte · May 29, 2010

My wife uses nothing but CCI Maxi-Mag +V in her 351PD and has yet to have any misfires. The action on her 351 was improved by Teddy Jacobson, but it still has a relatively heavy trigger pull.

mtheo · May 29, 2010

I'm not sure of the total number of rounds I have shot through my 351PD but, while still stiff the action has become much smoother. Ejecting the spent cartridge cases has become a lot easier. I am supposing the frequent bronze brush cleaning has helped "hone" the chambers. The ejection was so difficult in the beginning that I had resorted to coating the chambers with Dri-Slide (molybdenum disulfide.) This was not a problem w/ my 650.

New S&W 351 PD FTF...Please Help!

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

US Veteran

Member

Member

Member

Administrator

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads