Another LEOSA qualification…

[Lt.Donn]

North Carolina requires retirees to shoot the same course as all other officers. There are numerous courses that are approved, but most shoot the BLET (Basic Law Enforcement Training) course. Daytime out to 25 yards and dim light out to 15. Daytime course requires prone at 25 yards and kneeling at several distances less than 25. The dim light course requires kneeling also.

We also have to qualify with each individual weapon a retiree wants to carry by serial number (same as for full time LEO's). The qualification is good for 365 days from date of qualification. The full time requirements are one day and one dim light qualification with each weapon by serial number within the calendar year. Given this, a person can qualify on January 1 this year and be "good" (i.e. qualified) until December 31 of the next year, effectively one qualification in two years (minus one day).

NC also requires the same qualification for handguns regardless of the size, i.e. no special course for backup/undercover weapons.

Yikes...and here I thought the rules in NM were tough...sheesh, it takes a LOT to outdo a dem stronghold like NM...

 

[Doug M.]

Argh. Pedantic lawyer issue. There is no longer anything valid about calling this HR218; that label went away once the statute was enacted. For active officers, the correct citation is 18USC 926(b); for retirees, 18 USC 926(c). No other citation is valid.

The course here is pretty easy, although doing it 3 months after breaking my shoulder and having surgery was not as fun as I would have liked (holster draw w/my M66 was ugly). I do it with at least 2 platforms (striker fired and revolver) and sometimes 3 (cocked and locked 1911 type format, usually with my KZ 9) and try to do it twice a year. They use the CJTC off duty/BUG course and I usually do pretty well.

 

[WCCPHD]

Yikes...and here I thought the rules in NM were tough...sheesh, it takes a LOT to outdo a dem stronghold like NM...

In NC the rules are made by the NC Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission and administered by the Dept of Justice. NC has had extremely left leaning Attorney's General since 2000. The last three were/are anti-law enforcement and anti-gun. They put as many roadblocks up as possible.

 

[WCCPHD]

Argh. Pedantic lawyer issue. There is no longer anything valid about calling this HR218; that label went away once the statute was enacted. For active officers, the correct citation is 18USC 926(b); for retirees, 18 USC 926(c). No other citation is valid.

The course here is pretty easy, although doing it 3 months after breaking my shoulder and having surgery was not as fun as I would have liked (holster draw w/my M66 was ugly). I do it with at least 2 platforms (striker fired and revolver) and sometimes 3 (cocked and locked 1911 type format, usually with my KZ 9) and try to do it twice a year. They use the CJTC off duty/BUG course and I usually do pretty well.

Must be nice to have a separate off duty and backup gun course of fire. In NC its the same for a duty weapon or a 2 inch barrel Seecamp. There was an effort to drop the 25 yard stage last year. It died an ugly death due to a few people who want to show how great they are at shooting.

 

[Lt.Donn]

In NC the rules are made by the NC Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission and administered by the Dept of Justice. NC has had extremely left leaning Attorney's General since 2000. The last three were/are anti-law enforcement and anti-gun. They put as many roadblocks up as possible.

That sucks out loud...move to Georgia...we are just 15 minutes from NC in my area

 

[WCCPHD]

That sucks out loud...move to Georgia...we are just 15 minutes from NC in my area

Family has been here since 1795 so I have no intention of moving.

 

[Riposte1]

I maintain that retired LEOs courses should concentrate on point blank to 15 yards at the most. If a retiree has to shoot someone beyond that distance, it more than likely is NOT going to be to protect himself, (self defense) and that's what the idea was for LEO retirees.

I don't doubt that is true, but no one can predict how far he will have to shoot - I will admit, long range problems of self defense at ranges even longer than 10 yards are unusual. Still I know of officers and regular citizens saving officers under attak, having to shoot and hit at 70, 91, 102 and "allegedly" 169 "yards" ( I suspect that one was actually 169 feet )

Some of my .45s are zeored at 75 yards (not all of them) and they have a point blank range of 100 yards (PBR is how far you can shoot without the bullet rising or dropping beyond a certain arbitray distance - for an 8" aiming zone that is 4 inches higher or lower than the aiming point).

Mind you, while I might be carrying one, they are zeroed that way for hunting not defense, but it works pretty good either way - I always try to include 100 yard handgun targets in my weekly exercises, just to know I can do it.

Pehaps I am weird, but if so I know a lot of weird people.

Should pistol quals require such shots - I don't think so. I was sort of disapointed when they dropped 50 yard targets from the qual, and then later 25 yards - if only 2 or 4 shots out of 24 or 25.

Just Ramblin' - nobody asks me any more

Riposte

 

[StuN25]

HR-218 doesn't specify what the qualification course of fire is, only that the retiree "qualify in the state of residence, or from the agency retired from". Different states and agencies have different courses of fire, some easy, some hard. I conduct the qualifications for our area four times a year in conjunction with the local PD, due to the fact that there are 215 retirees on my mailing list and I couldn't handle that many at one time. Our course of fire is a DPSST certified course for Oregon, but without the time constraints. We call it "old cop friendly", as we don't require kneeling, prone, etc. We do require 100% hits in the center zone of the target, which is approximately the size of an 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper. It's a target used by some agency in Southern Illinois that fits our needs.

I just conducted our latest quarterly qualification this past Tuesday, and had 24 retirees. They shoot 25 rounds, from 10 yards to 2 yards. I've had retirees in wheel chairs, on crutches and with walkers. To not allow those people to qualify would be criminal in my mind, as they're the ones who need to carry the most.

I've been told tales by some of the retirees that young rangemasters at their old departments don't like to qualify retirees, so they make it difficult for the older folks to be able to make the times, and get up and down off the ground on purpose. I hope Karma hits those young pups when they're our age. When you get too old to fight, you still need to be able to protect yourself. I've personally had people I've arrested try to find where I moved to after they got out of prison, so I understand the need to be able to continue to carry after leaving the job, and I've been retired for 30 years.

I'm in the process of handing over the qualifications to a couple of younger retirees. I'm 81, and who knows how much longer I'll be able to keep this stuff up. I'm still active, but I'm also a realist, and I know I'm facing my mortality. I just don't know my out date, so I'll continue to do what I'm doing as long as I'm able.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Every time I've qual'd at PSTC Clackamas as a retiree it was administered by a retired PPB sergeant who runs the range there and the kneeling position behind cover at 10yds was mandatory, though changing location to fire each shot was not. For guys like me (75yrs old) with bad knees they put down rubber mats as an accommodation but required kneeling since that's part of the old DPSST PQC1. I was told that PQC1 in the academy was changed some years back. They were generous but not ridiculous with the time limit for each stage.

Aside from my first career (retired after 26yrs as a CA LEO and relocated to OR) my second was as a non-sworn firearms instructor for both PSTC, and the DPSST academy when they were at WOU and using the old Camp Adair range and then later at the Aumsville Highway campus in Salem. I retired from both of those after 15yrs and because of my work affiliation with both organizations I'd hoped to be able to LEOSA qual standing behind cover at 10yds but was told that was a "no go". No complaints, as I've always shot the 100% (25/25) required.