I have a new to me, hardly used S&W Model 18-3. It's a beautiful gun, but the chambers are extremely tight, even when spotlessly clean. I haven't found any ammo that will "drop in". Cheapo bulk ammo will go in with a little push. Some of the better target ammo will only go 2/3 of the way in before requiring a pretty heavy push to get them chambered (though after firing, they easily eject).

I used the search function and discovered that this is not an uncommon problem with S&W .22s.

A couple of the threads suggested purchasing a cylinder reamer to open up the chambers a bit.

My question is if this is a do-it-yourself job. Don't have a drill press, so I'd have to use a tap handle. I have used a coning tool/tap handle to successfully cone the muzzle of a flintlock rifle. Is it difficult to keep aligned in the holes? Any tricks to using a reamer? Any suggestions as to the best brand of reamer?

Seems like it should be fairly easy, but I don't want to make an expensive error either.

Have you tried cleaning the cyl real good ? I use a bore brush on the battery powered drill. Maybe it has some stuff in it ?? A thought.

I too would concentrate on a through bronze bore brush cleaning before thinking about using a reamer on the chambers.

The reamer work is a one-way trip, and if you get a bad chamber finish, you will have extraction problems.

.22 LR reamers are available in "standard" and "match" varieties. You want the "standard".

The reaming itself is a manual operation, since the chamber reamer is piloted, it will guide and center itself in the chamber throat. Remove cylinder from gun. Dip the reamer in black sulphur pipe thread cutting oil before each reaming operation. Avoid sideways pressure when reaming. Clean chips frequently, and do NOT turn the reamer backwards, as that will ruin the cutting edges. After the reaming, wrap a strip of 600 grit wet-or-dry abrasive or crocus cloth on a slotted mandrel and hand polish the chamber a bit. Solvent clean and oil before installing in the gun.

"Tight" charge holes are pretty well the norm in all .22 caliber guns, revolvers and rifles. This is just how it is if they are cut to SAAMI specification. If you do buy a chamber reamer don't be surprised if it just drops in and doesn't cut anything! S&W charge holes in .22s are not undersized, believe it or not.

I had the same problem with my 617. Reamed the cylinders and no more problems with bullets going in or sticking in the cylinder during extraction. It's an easy process, just use lots of oil.

Advise some serious caution here. Have you done a real cleaning of each of the offending "charge holes'? Brass or stainless brush?, but please do not ream them out!! I have a "Bekeart" that someone ruined one chamber on so be careful what you do. It is difficult if not impossible to fix a screw up... Kyle

I would send it to the factory to be fix myself.

Polish, but don't ream. The chambers are that size for a reason. It works.
Jan. 2016 more experience changes this above recommendation. The SAAMI standard finishing reamer will solve all the "tight" chamber problems. You can do more harm to your revolver "beating" stuck empties out, than opening the chambers with a quality reamer.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I'd try stuffing cartridges in a few other S&W 22 revolvers before doing any reaming. I don't know why you believe that ammo should "drop in" to a chamber and that if it requires a "push" there is a problem. A "little push" probably means .0002" or less removed to get "drop in" characteristics. In my 17, 18 and 34 I find that 22 ammo case diameter isn't all that precise. Which ammo are you going to ream for?


I'd at least try some JB bore paste first.

From what I have experienced over the last 40 years, S & W .22 chambers always seem to run a bit tight. I notice that certain ammo works better than others. For instance...... Federal .22's are the tightest, Winchester's are not as tight, and Remington's are the least tight of all. I personally do not like the quality of the Remington .22's (a lot of FTF) so I have decided to use Winchester Wildcats for most of my informal plinking. That said, I have had trouble finding them over the past year or so, so I did actually purchase a few bricks of the Federal Champion .22 ammo. Now when I shoot them I have a nylon brush at the ready that I use to swab out the chambers every 50 rounds or so. A little more effort is involved, but not a big deal. On the plus side, I do think that the Federal .22's are the best quality overall and seem very accurate.

I also have a few Colt .22 revolvers and the chambers on those are quite loose compared to the Smiths. I have never been able to get a straight answer from Smith regarding this matter, so it is what it is.

I would NOT ream out the chambers, just polish them with caution and use a Nylon brush once in a while. Works well for me.

Regards,
chief38

MANSON PRECISION : Rimfire Cartridge, .22 Long Rifle Finisher (Cyl) (513-051-220) - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools
Ream the chambers by hand with good cutting oil and a tap handle to turn the reamer. Despite the nay sayers it's a good thing to do on 17/617's. I've done a number of them. No accuracy loss and it's nice to have the rounds eject without wacking the ejector rod.

Thanks for the replies thus far.

To clarify a couple points-

Chambers were scrubbed spotless with a bronze brush, so crud deposits were not an issue. Chambers don't seem to be rough and fired cases extract smoothly, but I will probably try polishing them anyway as it can't hurt.

As to how tight they are- Golden Bullets go nearly all the way in, a little push seats them. No biggy. Mini Mags don't go in as far and require a little more pressure. Federal Champions only go about half way in before meeting resistance, and then they are so tight I have trouble even getting them seated enough to close the cylinder.

With all the other .22s I own or have owned (revolvers, autos, rifles) I've found that when you drop a cartridge in the chamber, it either seats all the way or nearly so.

I can see where tighter cylinder charge holes should keep the bullet more stable until it enters the barrel, but there should be a happy medium.

When trying to sort out my new to me M17-3, I spent $65 or so on so called "target" ammo. I was having some success, but the range master approached my and asked if I had used any Federal Value Pack. I thought no value anything is going into this S&W.

He brought me several to try. Holy Cow! My best groups at 25ft went from 1" down to 5/8". To my real big surprise, the cases nearly fell out when I touched the extractor. This was after 150 or so rounds of all other ammo with no cleaning of the chambers. Some of the others cases, I was having to punch out with small screw driver.

I showed him my target, and he laughed. He gave me some more, and I had the same results. They would hit a quater at 25 ft and almost fall out of the cylinder.

I bought some before I left the range at Larry's. they were around $15 per 525. They are 36gr high velocity, copper washed.

Get some.

Thanks. I'll try some of those too. The Golden Bullets weren't giving very good results accuracy wise.

I have yet to find a 617 cylinder with chambers a SAAMI spec finishing reamer will "drop in", they have all been undersize. I shot a 22 revolver steel challenge match 4th of July weekend last year with 40 some other shooters with 17's or (mostly) 617's. The ones who hadn't had the chambers reamed were wishing they had. They were they the ones looking for something to hit the ejector rod with.

Tomcatt51,

Interesting, I've only been Gunsmithing for the past 48 years and do have some experience with such things.

A couple of years ago I purchased a new .22 LR finish reamer to adjust the headspace in a Ruger Single-Six which I had squared up the breech face bearing surface and adjusted end-shake resulting in too little headspace. When it fell into the Ruger I got curious and decided to check my other .22s.

I have a Colt 3rd Generation Match Target, and no fewer than 6 S&W revolvers in various models and ranging from 1948 to mid 1980s production. In every one of these guns the reamer, which is right on SAAMI minimum dimensions, will enter every one of these right to the rim cut! Of the revolvers, every one of them requires a slight push to chamber every type ammunition I have ever used, just as everyone seems to complain of. Some of them, when just cleaned, and with some ammunition, will allow cartridges to drop in, but just the first cylinder full. None of them is even at SAAMI minimum dimensions, they are not undersized.

I would like to see all these 617s and the reamer you say cuts their chambers. I would be amazed if they could even be loaded if they are that tight. I have no doubt that special purpose reamers are used to provide a slight enlargement and increased draft to chamber for competition revolvers, are you sure this isn't what was being used?

I use a Manson .22 lr finishing reamer, cylinder. It is a revolver specific chamber reamer. I assume because of the throat diameter pilot. I gave a link for it a couple posts back in this thread. That's the one.

I have not seen any increase in group sizes after reaming the chambers. The throats are not being reamed and seem remarkably consistent based on the pilot fit.

On the 10 shot 617's there seems to be a pretty common complaint with inserting/ejecting rds, particularly ejecting because you're trying to push 10 sticky empties out. Getting rds in becomes an issue when you're trying to do it 10 at a time with speedloaders. Not an issue with freshly cleaned chambers but try it after 400 rds. The 22 revolver steel match (was 9 stages, 225 rds minimum, lots of CCI Mini-Mags being used) I shot was an eye opener. I'd never seen 40+ 10 shot 17/617's in one place before. There were two distinct groups, those who had reamed the chambers and those who were going to.

I've got a few M18's, a M17, and a M63. Other than the M63 the Charge holes were so tight that I even had trouble pushing in the bullets after only a few cylinders full. To eject them was painful. My revolvers are always cleaned perfectly and the Charge holes on those Smiths were just so tight it was a real pain in the butt to shoot. After reaming with the Manson Finish Reamer they are remarkably improved. The M63 did not need reaming nor did any of my Colt .22 LR's.

Most fellow shooters at my club who own a M18 or M17 have similar experiences. Colts do not seem to have this problem.

NOTE: I once swore ( see my post above ) I'd never do this, but after much frustration I gave in !

This is a pretty tame example of what was said when I first posted about reaming 17/617/18 chambers. This was one of the "nice" threads, it got pretty nasty.

There was no shortage of, "I"ve been doing this for XX number of yrs and know better, they don't need it", "you're going to ruin your gun hogging out the chambers" etc along with many mickey mouse alternative polishing schemes.

Funny how things change.

Reaming the chambers is one of the best thing you can do for your S&W 22 LR revolver.

Thanks to chief38 for resurrecting this thread.

I've seen MANY MANY Smith Revolvers with tight chambers (mainly M18's) and in fact years ago (in the late 80's) guys who were in my shooting club back then had sent theirs into the Factory for the same reason. The Factory did exactly what we are doing and sent them back. It is not uncommon to still see guys scrubbing the charge holes with brushes to reload another cylinder full. Like I have stated above, I have never had this problem with any Colts I own and the same ammo is used.

I have experimented with different brands of ammo and Remington seems to be slightly better, but unfortunately the Remington ammo these days is real junk and I much prefer CCI and Federal.

That is why I caved in a while ago and did mine. I have noticed no change in accuracy, but at least I no longer need to struggle ejecting empties after 30 rounds!

Thanks for the information in this thread. A few months ago I purchased a Manson finishing reamer and had my gunsmith ream a 34, 35, and 18-3 that didn't get shot much due to difficulty ejecting cases. He said he was surprised how much metal was removed.

I'm shooting these revolvers much more often now that reloading is a pleasure rather than a PIA.

I've reamed a bunch of S&W 22 LR chambers now and am still amazed at how many chips are generated. Glad you like the results, I've never seen any downside to doing this.

I'm glad this thread came back to life. My own experience with 10-shot 617s(I own 3) is that one(which I bought NIB) had no extraction problems. The other two did have problems and were reamed. I also have two Model 18s that are almost impossible to extract empties.

We had a period in this area during which many of us bought 617s(10 shot) and shot pin tops and steel with them. Many shooters had severe problems and our local revolversmith bought a finish reamer and fixed everyone's S&W revolvers.

My theory is that the factory simply uses it's chamber cutter too long before it's sharpened or discarded. The charge holes are probably still in 'spec' so out the door they go.

Please don't tell me to scrub my chambers again....I'm only half as dumb as you think I am!

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

Only thing I'm sure of is that I haven't found one with chambers large enough the cutter didn't cut. Some have generated less chips.

625s have been the same way. The reamer has cut in all of them but some it's "straightened" (just taken out high spots) more than enlarged (really makes me wonder how S&W can do that) and in some I get a full cut.

I've also cut SAAMI (sporting) spec chambers in several eternally finicky S&W 41s. I'd've though they came with a "match" chamber of one flavor or another but in each the reamer only cut "high spots" and just "straightened" the chamber. They did function much better after reaming with no noticable loss of accuracy.

My S&W .38/357s are a mixed batch. Most are tight on the reamer but won't cut. My 3" HB 10-8 has factory chambers the reamer rattles around in. It's my only pre FMFP 38 or 38/357.

OK, I won't.
From the pics of the amount of metal reamed from cylinders, it'd take a lot of scrubbing.

BEFORE using a Reamer (ANY BRAND), I would measure it carefully with an accurate Caliper to make SURE it is indeed the correct size. If it is the correct size and metal is being removed from the Charge Holes than they were obviously too tight! There is no other explanation I can think of that makes sense. If someone states that their Manson Reamer just drops in than I would either suspect that their Charge Holes ARE the correct size OR the particular Reamer they received is NOT the correct size. Easy enough to find out just by measuring with a Caliper. Seems simple to me.

MEASURE TWICE (OR 3,4, or 5 TIMES) CUT ONCE! YOU CAN NOT PUT METAL BACK YA KNOW.................

Or they have a cylinder chambered for 22 mag.

I just performed my 1st on a problematic 617:

- the amount that came out of all but 1 hole was ridiculous.
- I would recommend attempting it, even for the average tinkerer. It was not a hard job at all. Took about an hour including clean up.

Parts used:
1. Rimfire Cartridge, .22 Long Rifle Finisher (Cyl) : RIMFIRE CARTRIDGES | Brownells

2. 16 oz. DO-DRILL® : UNIVERSAL DO-DRILL | Brownells

3. Your version of Tap and Die Kit No. 1 : TAP & DIE KIT No. 1 | Brownells

4. A vise

5. Leather strips/padded vise ( I use extra leather/paint stirrer sticks) to protect the cylinder

*No way those cylinders were uniform from S/W. the reamer varied from sliding in 25-50% of the cylinders. The reamer also has a neck, all you have to do is stop reaming when the cylinder face is just shy of that neck. ( EDIT - not the cylinder face but the face of the extractor) I also left the cylinder and extractor together to try and ensure a uniform to cylinder mate up. I just put empty casings in each cylinder that I wasnt reaming to have a bit more lock up. Honestly though, not much pressure or "push" was needed, the reamer did its job with minimum effort

Pretty simple process and I'm no master gunsmith.

I'm firmly on Tomcatt's side on this. I've been pistol smithing for nearly 50 yrs. and have found S&W's boring of .22 LR cylinder chambers to be suspect at best. I have the Brownell's Long Rifle Revolver cylinder reamer and it gives a wonderful finish of a 'correct' sized SAAMI chamber. It does not alter the throats. I also have a .22 LR Target reamer for bolt action rifles only made by F.K. "Red" Elliott. It was well known back then for being one of the 'tighter' target chamber reamers available. I have found two or three individual chambers on 22 LR S&W revolver cylinders that my Red Elliott reamer wouldn't go in. I do not know why S&W has varied all over the map in chambering size for SAAMI standard chambers, but they have. I have been reaming 22 LR revolver chambers for most of 20 years now and have never had anyone that was dis-satisfied with the results on their revolver.

The biggest advantage to reaming 22 LR revolver chambers is the resulting ease of extraction/ejection. I have NEVER seen accuracy go down in the least and I HAVE seen accuracy improved by uniforming all the cylinder's chambers. ...........

I have had similar observations on S&W's .22 MRF chambers in revolver cylinders, but not near to the same extent that was seen on .22 LR chambers.

BTW, I am continually amazed at the accuracy obtainable when reaming a S&W 22 LR cylinder to 22 MRF and fitting it to a M 617. The use of 22 MRF thru the slightly smaller bore of the M 617 just seems to give 22 MRF the same accuracy as the original .22 LRs have. ....

Slightly off topic but might be of interest. In 1986 I bought a used model 16. I used that revolver extensively for practice and bullseye shooting. I also collected and shot Colt DA revolvers .I shot many of my own reloads with cast unsized wadcutter bullets. Frequently they had a slight bluge where the bullet was encased in the brass. These rounds always chambered without difficulty in my Model 16 but the same bulged rounds would not chamber in my 1920s to 40s Colt revolvers either the service or Officer's models The 38 sp Colt cylinders had significantly tighter chambers than the Model 16 Smith. both shot very well.

Another testimonial for .22 chamber reaming. I have a pre model 18 and a 17-6 that gave me trouble with extraction. After Big Cholla reamed them they both extract very easily. The accuracy of the 17-6 is greatly improved now that the chambers are uniform. Money well spent.

To anyone thinking about reaming their .22 cylinder chambers, if you can use a tap, go for it! Here's a thread I started a while back after reaming my first cylinder on a Model 18. I've never regretted that decision.

Just out of curiosity, for those of us who've used the reamer, is there an projected life expectancy for the reamers before replacement or resharpening is required?

Thanks,
Lou

__________________
NRA Certified Instructor & RSO

I would polish not ream.

IMHO and experience a 22 caliber reamer of good quality will ream quality chambers for hundreds of times.....IF you take care of the reamer. i.e.: clean the reamer every time it comes out, Use quality cutting oil and lots of it, never turn the reamer backwards, turn the reamer in the cutting direction even when withdrawing from the chamber, don't try to hog out the whole cut in one pass, use multiple ins, outs, cleans, re-oil chamber and reamer. Do all this enough and you develop muscle memory for the 'normal' effort it takes. When and if you feel the necessary effort go upwards it is time for a new reamer. Yes, the reamer can be reground, but it usually undersizes it. So, the solution is to just get a new reamer when the original has given its all. And store the reamer in a plastic tube container that never allows anything else made of steel to touch it.

Don't try to ream a chamber that has been chromed. I don't know anything about reaming titanium. I have reamed aluminum but only when using special cutting oil specifically for aluminum. ...............

I've done 8 .22 cylinders so far, and it is still like new. Be sure to follow the steps Big Cholla lines out, lots of cutting oil and keep the reamer clean.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I've reamed the chambers in two of the 10 shot aluminum cylinders. Brownells' DO-DRILL worked just fine. Perfect smooth shiny surface finish.

Odd that in all this discussion of experiences good and bad no one, even experienced gunsmiths, spoke of checking chamber dimensions with gauges. I guess whatever works is the right solution, but it would be informative to know if your pistol was on specification, particularly if having the fix done by S&W outside warranty. Has any one checked either before or after reaming?

Read post #30.

The other question would be what is "on specification"? There are many different spec .22LR chambers.

Saami spec chambers are usually called "sport" chambers.

There are many more (usually) smaller and shorter with shorter throats.

How tight a chamber you can use ultimately seems to be based on the consistency of the ammo and the guns ability to extract the fired cases.

You can run a tighter chamber in a .22LR bolt action than will allow the usual blow back semi-auto to function. On our revolver it's compounded by having 6 to 10 to extract at a time...

Remember also that SAAMI spec is actually just a reference value.

With the amount of chips we're getting reaming the chambers they're way smaller (as post #30 references using a know VERY tight chamber reamer as a gauge) than Saami (sport) spec.

I don't have a telescoping gauge small enough to measure a .22LR chamber and small hole gauges aren't accurate enough. I did a bunch of measuring of 625 chambers verifying they were also just badly sized, being both undersize and out of round.

Try chambering fired cases from ANY .22LR semi-auto in your 617...

Near as I can tell S&W will call the chamber "in spec" if a .22LR round can be inserted into a clean chamber. They won't ream chambers if you send a gun back, they might install another cylinder with chambers probably no better than what you had. It was a really big deal to get them to warranty 625 cylinders and they still won't admit the "short" firing pins many CF FMFP guns have are a problem...

I have a question for the pro reaming guys.
If you attempt to insert a Cci standard velocity 22 round into the ball end of your reamed cylinder chambers will it go?
This is the only way I know to check throat dimensions and puts mine at about .224.
Don't know if it matters, just askin.

The finish reamer does NOT have any impact on the throats. The reamer only trues up the chambers(you know...the part where the brass goes).

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

+1

The revolver chamber reamer pilots in the throat (doesn't cut the throat) and only cuts the chamber.

The reamer will cut the rim recess so care is required to (at most) just touch the rim recess. If in doubt, stop a bit short.

Revolver chamber reamers are configured differently than other action type chamber reamers.

Reamers cannot be resharpened and still cut the same diameter hole. To sharpen, you have to remove metal from each flute on the reamer, which leaves the overall diameter smaller than reamer was when new. Depending on how oversize the reamer was when new, how much material has to be ground off when resharpening it, and how much is needed to open a chamber hole to make it chamber a round.

Now forget everything I just wrote. What can be done to a used reamer is the have it re-cut, not resharpened. Reamers cut with the leading edge of the reamer, and that is where most of the wear takes place. After a lot use, the reamer cutting surface takes on a tapered shape from the front towards the rear. By moving away from this worn area and cutting off the end of the reamer, it can have the flutes where the shoulder is ground/sharpened to size and a new shoulder created. Whether this is cost effective depends on who is doing the work.

About the life of the reamer, it is dependent on a lot of factors. Two things that effect the life of a reamer is how fast it is used and whether you use a good cutting oil. A hand reamer, used with little downward force at slow (hand) turning rate and lots of cutting oil should be able to ream a lot of holes before needed re-cut or replaced. Storage is also important, as you don't want to damage the cutting surfaces. Cutting life is also dependent on the material being cut. Normally I would say stainless steel would shorten it's life, but the grade of stainless S&W uses seems to be pretty soft compared a lot that I've had experience with.

__________________
So many S&W's, so few funds!!

The Manson reamer does not cut the throat. The shoulder on the reamer that cleans up the rim recess acts as a stop and keeps the reamer from going too far. There should be no change in dimensions of the throat.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244