J Frame Spring Kit

My wife is having a terrible time with the trigger draw on her 638. I found these two spring kits & they look to do the same thing reduce the draw weight. Which one of the two would you buy??
Custom-Tune® Spring Kit | S&W J Frame-Wilson Combat


https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid49.html


Thanks Mike

I have the Wilson combat springs in my 617 and like them just fine. All my J frames have the wolf spring kit with a 12# rebound slide spring. They're quite nice. I haven't used apex springs. Get Mikelucs video- there's more to it than just springs....

Neither. Reducing the spring weight reduces reliability. Go to a design that is reliable with a much lighter trigger. A 9mm Shield, for example will get a reliable trigger at 6.5 pounds with a short travel length instead of a 12 pounds plus DA pull. The Shield is easier to shoot, holds more ammo, is flatter and carries easier and 9mm ammo is cheaper these days than 38 Special ammo, even in premium carry ammo.

The Apex kits come with a longer firing pin for reliable ignition. Recently installed a couple of kits and it made a world of difference.

I've installed several of the Apex kits. They're the only one I'm aware of MEANT to be used in a carry gun. They work well (and seem to go bang with any ammo) but they do require rebound slide smoothing and a little work on the trigger/cylinder stop surfaces to get a good trigger rebound.

shawn mccarver said:

Neither. Reducing the spring weight reduces reliability. Go to a design that is reliable with a much lighter trigger. A 9mm Shield, for example will get a reliable trigger at 6.5 pounds with a short travel length instead of a 12 pounds plus DA pull. The Shield is easier to shoot, holds more ammo, is flatter and carries easier and 9mm ammo is cheaper these days than 38 Special ammo, even in premium carry ammo.

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I tried reduced springs years ago, and found the reliability wanting. If I currently have issues with any revolver that's new to me, the gun guts get a polish job and I retain the OEM springs.

I've done 7 J-frame reduced spring kits, all on guns being carried by people I care for. I've only used Wolff springs (ordered through Dillon's "Blue Press"). One of my tricks, and some won't like it, is while the trigger rebound spring and block are removed I gun scrub the internals with brake or carb cleaner, quickly reinstall parts and put a small drop of Break Free CLP on moving and pivoting parts while the solvent is still wet, this lets the CLP wick into tight places with very little oily residue. Pocket carried guns get a lot of lent and dust and need a good internal every 6 to 18 months depending on your use.(Don't know the cleaning frequency on purse carry). Always use a complete spring of the desired strength, trimmed springs have been known to do wonky things. Ivan

I've put Wolff 13# rebound springs in all my j-frames but left the stock main springs in place. No reliability issues at all. I also polish the rebound slide and adjacent frame surfaces. Those two things make for a big improvement in the DA pull. I tried a Wolff 8# mainspring but it didn't seem to make much difference in the pull over the stock 8-1/2 pounder, so I left the stocker in for reliablity's sake. I like the early narrow "service trigger" better than the later wide smooth trigger, but I like to smooth the serrations, radius the edges, and round off the tip for a "narrow combat" version.
I think a properly-engineered lighter-weight spring is worlds better than a shortened stock spring. That was the way to go back in the day, but nowadays proper springs are readily available (Wolff, Wilson, Apex) and cheap-- no need to improvise. Someone who bought a PC 637 told me that he thought they had installed a clipped rebound spring-- kind of surprised that they would do that but old habits die hard I guess.
I don't get it with the longer firing pins in the Apex kit, I never heard of a problem due to the standard length firing pin but then again all my j's are vintage hammer-nose models. CAV, when you say you installed Apex kits and they "made a world of difference", did the longer firing pins cure misfire issues or are you just referring to the trigger pull?

hotrod150 said:

did the longer firing pins cure misfire issues or are you just referring to the trigger pull?

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FMFP J frames have the same firing pin issues the bigger FMFP guns have, many came from the factory with "short", .485"+/-, firing pins. Reliability is better with the "long", .492" to .495", S&W pins or an Apex firing pin.

Send your FMFP gun to S&W for service and if it had a "short" firing pin it will come back with a .495" firing pin in it.

The Apex kit is specifcally meant for carry guns. It's not just a "lighter springs kit". It offers a reduction in DA pull with reliability. It does usually require some work to get a good trigger rebound. If your J frame has a hammer spur, can be shot SA, it also gives a really light (probably too light) SA pull. Seems to be meant for DA shooting.

hotrod150 said:

I've put Wolff 13# rebound springs in all my j-frames but left the stock main springs in place. No reliability issues at all. I also polish the rebound slide and adjacent frame surfaces. Those two things make for a big improvement in the DA pull. I tried a Wolff 8# mainspring but it didn't seem to make much difference in the pull over the stock 8-1/2 pounder, so I left the stocker in for reliablity's sake.
I think a properly-engineered lighter-weight spring is worlds better than a shortened stock spring. That was the way to go back in the day, but nowadays proper springs are readily available (Wolff, Wilson, Apex) and cheap-- no need to improvise.
I don't get it with the longer firing pins in the Apex kit, I never heard of a problem due to the standard length firing pin but then again all my j's are vintage hammer-nose models. CAV, when you say you installed Apex kits and they "made a world of difference", did the longer firing pins cure misfire issues or are you just referring to the trigger pull?

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Only a lighter and smoother trigger pull.

mmais:

I don't like using anything but stock springs in any of my J-frames. One suggestion I have that may help, but your wife will have to exercise care with, is the installation of a trigger shoe. We tried that on my late Mom's Model 37, and it helped quite a bit. Of course, with a wider trigger, especially if it's wider than the trigger guard, you need to be careful that it doesn't inadvertantly snag on something leading to an AD (Accidental Discharge). By the way, what really helped my late Mom was to transition from a Model 37 to a K-frame, Model 64. Yes, a bigger, heavier piece, but one she was comfortable with, and shot better than anything else.

Best of luck,

Dave

I avoid the trigger shoes as they tend to catch on various things and it makes a dangerous situation. Especially if you are carrying in a holster and re-holster the gun. Nearly all trigger shoes stick out past the trigger guard which is why they cause problems. A little stoning to smooth out the trigger and grinding the serrations out of the trigger face and polishing it and leaving all the springs factory is my remedy.

tomcatt51 said:

I've installed several of the Apex kits. They're the only one I'm aware of MEANT to be used in a carry gun. They work well (and seem to go bang with any ammo) but they do require rebound slide smoothing and a little work on the trigger/cylinder stop surfaces to get a good trigger rebound.

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I also did this and polished all moving mating surfaces using 1200 wet/dry paper with a drop or 2 of oil and it made a big difference.

Thanks Pop

I bought my 442 used and did a detailed cleaning of it. While I had it apart I smoothed what I can with an extra fine Arkansas wet stone and replaced the mainspring with a Wolff 8 pound spring and the rebound with an 11 pound Wolff spring and I've never had a problem with misfires.
It has helped make the gun easier to handle with my gimpy hands.

I just got done REMOVING the 8 pound Wilson hammer spring that came in my near-new 351c.
First time at the range it would not ignite at least one, and most often two of the seven rounds in cylinder. Sometimes it would not ignite the same round even after two strikes. It didn't make a difference if I was indexing or pulling straight-through. Happened with brass and nickeled cases (Armscor 40 gr. JHP and Hornady 45 GR FTX). Installed the factory spring...MUCH deeper dimples in the casing and it fires every time.

In the photo, the two foremost cases had two strikes each before going off under the Wilson spring. The rear case is under the factory spring.
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I sent my 642 to S&W for its "J frame action enhancement" which really made a difference in the DAO trigger pull. I wouldn't alter/replace springs lest the plaintiff's attorney accuse me of criminal negligence for installing a "hair trigger".

Elliott41 said:

I sent my 642 to S&W for its "J frame action enhancement" ... I wouldn't alter/replace springs lest the plaintiff's attorney accuse me of criminal negligence for installing a "hair trigger".

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A 7 lb (at best) or 9 lb (more likely) DAO "hair trigger"?

I agree with hotrod150, I too use a 13# spring and also smooth the rebound spring slide. Also polish the frame under it and beside it. I have also heard to polish inside where the spring fits. It doesn't make a BIG difference, maybe 2 pounds, but it takes some of the grittiness out. Use a really good oil on all surfaces.