What does Uncut Ratchet Mean on New Cylinder?

GeoJelly · Dec 16, 2015

OK - it's dumb question time again! In my continuing Model 36 saga - I picked up a Classic two weeks ago for (an incredible) $330. The grips were junk and there's a couple of small marks on the frame. The cylinder, though, has lots of tiny scratches and drives me ape-shinola.

So - I called S&W, and they will send a shiny new cylinder (when they are back in stock) for $69. The cylinder has a fitted extractor - but the CS Rep said that the ratchet is "uncut". He made it sound like there's just a circle of metal where the ratchet teeth should be - almost like the teeth are not cut at all. Hopefully I misunderstood him?? If the teeth aren't cut at all - then I'm back up shinola-creek because the new cylinder will be almost worthless to me.

Does anyone (and I'm sure the answer is yes!) know the details about how a new cylinder is sent? And, what has to be done with it? Thanks in advance!!

KAC · Dec 16, 2015

Uncut means the ratchets are there, they just need to be fitted to the hand. S&W uses a tool to make the initial cut on the ratchets, and then the final fitting is done with a file.

garbler · Dec 16, 2015

Send them the gun and have the ratchets set up and fitted. This ain't something you should be trying to do x10. There may be some here that think it's well within their grasp but just take my word on it

Good luck

bigggbbruce · Dec 16, 2015

^This

and if you have to ask what the term means.

GeoJelly · Dec 16, 2015

Gents - Thanks - I'm in over my head on this one. I think Smith would do it for the cost of the cylinder plus (guessing) a half-hour - so $45 + shipping. The problem is they'll have the dang thing for many months. My Flatlatch came back in less than two months - but I called them many times so they were prolly sick of hearing from me!

That said - I wonder if the extractor from my scratchy-cylinder would fit on the new cylinder? Supposedly the new-style extractors require less hand-fitting ... Thanks!!

bigggbbruce · Dec 16, 2015

Different type used in old, two locating pins. New style has a flat cut on shaft.

BC38 · Dec 16, 2015

GeoJelly said:
...I wonder if the extractor from my scratchy-cylinder would fit on the new cylinder? Supposedly the new-style extractors require less hand-fitting ....

Before sending it in I'd try this. Might not fit, but then again it just might. No harm in trying.

Another option would be to have a local pistol smith (if you can find one) do the hand fitting for you. We have a couple locally that are supposed to be pretty good, though I haven't had to use their services so far.

flintsghost · Dec 16, 2015

Extractors are fitted to cylinders at the factory. Ratchets are rough fitted with a tool and then hand filed to fit. Which word are you having trouble with. You are trying to avoid the correct solution. If you are a certified revolver armorer you could fit it. But since you obviously aren't... you can't. Many armorers have a problem with them.
Send it back to the factory even if it's gone for months. Otherwise it will be worthless piece of junk anyway.

sodacan · Dec 16, 2015

I'm guessing you're not seeing it as a $330 "bargain" any longer. Keep it as a shooter and look for one that's worth buying. Good luck.

ken158 · Dec 16, 2015

I am a LE armorer and cutting ratchets in my most un-favorite thing... It takes time and a special file. You are in NOVA and I suggest you go to Va gun trader and see if you can find an armorer in your area. I would offer to help you out if you were down my way but this is not a spectator sport! My recommendation is send it to the factory...

GeoJelly · Dec 16, 2015

Wow - gotta love the blogosphere! I thought I'd better post a picture of the piece of junk ...

... that I bought! It's in beautiful condition, strong carry-up all around, tight lockup all around, perfect B/C alignment and gap, beautiful grips ... with more than a few hairline scratches on the cylinder. Otherwise it has a rich and beautiful blued finish - with no splotches (except on the cylinder where I used cold blue

).

Thank-you to each and all for the constructive comments and recommendations. Not so much thank-you for insinuating that I cannot read and comprehend English (despite a hard science MS). But, anyway - Thanks again for the input. I guess I'll just send it back cause the cylinder is $69 either way - this just adds time and not too much more cost ...

garbler · Dec 16, 2015

I would like to add something else here after reading all the good advice posted. I was a gunsmith who did lots of competition hand installs meaning oversized hands fitted to ratchets and windows. I also repaired rental guns for a couple of ranges but one thing I wouldn't do is take a blank cylinder and fit up ratchets. In fact I don't know any good gunsmiths who would. Not saying they can't figure it out just that they wouldn't take the job. As for armorers well this is normally not something they do but perhaps somebody will step up and take it

Good luck

chief38 · Dec 16, 2015

I fit a new cylinder and extractor to a M36 once and had to file & stone the ratchets to fit. It came out perfect but took me many hours because I did not want to go too far (can't put metal back ya know).

I would not look forward to doing it again unless I had no choice. In my case I happen to have all the extra parts and just dove into the job. Like I said, it came out perfectly, but what a P.I.T.A.!!!

Peak53 · Dec 16, 2015

Your cylinder scratches aren't showing so much in your photo. With all due respect, are you SURE this even needs doing? If you use the gun at all, it will show some wear. Holstering even more so. Consider reconsidering. Opinions are cheap, including this one.

GeoJelly · Dec 16, 2015

Peak53 said:
Your cylinder scratches aren't showing so much in your photo. With all due respect, are you SURE this even needs doing? If you use the gun at all, it will show some wear. Holstering even more so. Consider reconsidering. Opinions are cheap, including this one.

Hmmm - a wise man has spoken ...

. Under very bright like it looks a little rough; under normal room lighting conditions it looks just fine. Should look fine under indoor range lighting conditions.

paulj84003 · Dec 16, 2015

The factory uses "cutting Hands" and and a lever arangement that rotates on the trigger pin to fit a ratchet then a little filing . I still have several cutting hands in my tool box havent used them since the 70's

Hapworth · Dec 16, 2015

Your revolver and you need to follow your bliss, but personally I'd be thankful for an good deal on a quality shooter I wouldn't have to worry about putting some of the inevitable finish wear on. The cylinder marks are likely why you got the deal in the first place.

Will this 36 be a safe queen? Likely not, so keep it as-is and spend the savings on ammo.

Alternately, if you must have a temporarily perfect cylinder finish, see if S&W will repair or replace under warranty -- not saying they owe it to you, those scratches could've come from anywhere, but they might indulge you.

Lastly, there's an excellent old-school gunsmith in NOVA who knows S&Ws inside and out; rather than getting in over your head with any future DIYing on the complex stuff (fitting ratchets is simple in theory and something else in practice), if you don't want to use the factory, go see Sandy Garrett at Northern Virginia Gun Works.

sodacan · Dec 17, 2015

GeoJelly said:
Wow - gotta love the blogosphere! I thought I'd better post a picture of the piece of junk ... ... that I bought! It's in beautiful condition, strong carry-up all around, tight lockup all around, perfect B/C alignment and gap, beautiful grips ... with more than a few hairline scratches on the cylinder. Otherwise it has a rich and beautiful blued finish - with no splotches (except on the cylinder where I used cold blue ).

Thank-you to each and all for the constructive comments and recommendations. Not so much thank-you for insinuating that I cannot read and comprehend English (despite a hard science MS). But, anyway - Thanks again for the input. I guess I'll just send it back cause the cylinder is $69 either way - this just adds time and not too much more cost ...

You sure changed your tune from your original post. I fear you will be in a world of disappointment when this project is finished. Have you addressed the difference in finish of the new cylinder and having to refinish the gun? I'd rather have a gun with character than one with a mismatched cylinder and/or a re-finished gun.

2152hq · Dec 17, 2015

Replacing a perfectly good cylinder because of some bluing scratches makes no sense to me.
Polishing and rebluing the cylinder does if you really can't stand the looks of it.
A careful polish and hot salt dip re-blue will give it a nice new look.

All that newness will disappear back to about what you have now once it's handled, carried and shot some. But for the moment, it'll look nice and there won't be any expense & mystery about fitting a new cylinder to the gun.

If you do the polishing, most any shop doing hot blue will usually 'dip' small parts for $25 give or take and hand them back to you for reassembly.
Much less bother, wait and $$ to make a few scratches dissapear.

JMO of course.

GeoJelly · Dec 17, 2015

2152hq - I hear you about the possible foolishness of replacing a cylinder for scratches. But, just for perspective, I have had my M-28 6-in for just over 45 years. It was my first centerfire and first S&W. I've lost track of rounds fired - but prolly not more than 2,000. It's been holstered, but not extensively. Anyways, to the point, it does not have any scratches on the cylinder - and really not a bad turn ring either. The Model 36 was carried in a Kydex holster by the original owner and I guess that's what scratched it. And, he scratched it in short order because S&W told me it shipped in NOV 2014.

I hadn't thought about stripping it and polishing it myself - that's a good point. I'm not sure who does hot-bluing here in NoVA but I need to find out. I could strip it and polish it myself but, as you said, I would have to rely on them to degrease it and dip. Thanks for a good idea!

As far as shooting, and I sure hate to admit this on S&W Forum, but I have a couple of SP-101 snubbies and those are my go-to and shooting snubs. The Rugers are heavier, with rougher trigger pulls, but they're built like tanks and I can clean up any little marks with 3000 and 5000 grit automotive (foam-backed) sandpaper. I picked up the Flatlatch and the Classic in an attempt to round out my pretty modest S&W collection.

What does Uncut Ratchet Mean on New Cylinder?

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