Non-Ammonia Cleaners/Solvents

I notice there is talk about S&W cautioning shooters not to use ammoniated cleaners and solvents on new S&W firearms. Considering I just bought my first modern S&W, a new 586, I have done some checking up on which cleaners to use. From what I understand, products like Hoppe's 9, Shooter's Choice, and Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber all contain ammonia.

However, I contacted the folks at Remington and learned that their cleaning products - Rem Action Cleaner, Brite Bore, and 40-X Bore Cleaner are all ammonia free. I know there are many other brands out there as well that are also ammonia free but I figured I would share what I learned. Plus, I have always had a good experience with Remington gun care products.

I believe the warning is due to some parts that are not metal. The 1st example that comes to mind is the J frame. Sometime in the distant past after about the 1960s, the mainspring seat was changed from steel to some form of plastic.

I'm sure there are many other models as the guns became more modernized.

In the old days we were warned not to use products with ammonia on nickel plated gun because it flaked off the plating. As it turned out, S&Ws were safe.

Because the ammonia did not attack the nickel, only the copper pre plating, which it would dissolve, leaving the nickel plate without adherence to the metal. However, S&W did not pre plate with copper!

As I see it, cleaning involves two separate methods - mechanical where in debris & dirt are scrubbed away by Bronze brushes and tools and chemical where in contaminants are loosened up by a chemical process.

Since it seems ever more popular that gun company's are now making polymer, plastic, nylon, rubber, etc. parts instead of metal AND the fact that they are now using more environmentally friendly finishes, gun cleaning product company's have responded by making less caustic chemicals that don't quite work as well as the old stuff.

OK - now to the point! IMHO if a gun is cleaned soon after it is shot each time, then you are never piling debris on top of debris, never
"baking it on" and always starting out with a fresh clean gun so it should not be all that dirty and should not be that hard to clean even with the new less effective solvents.

I have used Rig #2 oil for over 35 years now for all my cleaning, rust prevention and lubrication on pretty much every gun pretty much each time I shoot it. Once in a while I will use Remoil because it will not stain Ivory or Stag (it's clear & Rig has a slight amber tint). Neither one contains Ammonia, neither one stinks bad and neither one harms any material I know of on firearms. AGAIN....... if a routine is done after each use, you should never have a gun so dirty that it needs super powerful chemicals.

NOW..... I do still have and use Hoppes #9 for when I buy a used gun and want to initially clean it (before it even gets shot). Since I am living in yesterday's "gun world" and only buy older guns - Hoppes #9 is perfectly safe to use. I also use Hoppes #9 when I shoot 200 - 300 rounds of Shot Shells when doing Trap, Skeet or Sporting Clays. Again, no problemo!

So that's my mantra and like anything else that we keep up with, it's not all that dirty. Neglect cleaning on a routine basis - then it becomes a chore!

PS: IMHO Bore Snakes are NOT considered a "thorough cleaning" in my book and while I will throw one down a barrel after a shooting session occasionally, it's ONLY because I intend to shoot more that afternoon or on the next Hunt the following day. When I return home all firearms receive a "proper" cleaning.

chief38 said:

I have used Rig #2 oil for over 35 years now for all my cleaning, rust prevention and lubrication on pretty much every gun pretty much each time I shoot it. Once in a while I will use Remoil because it will not stain Ivory or Stag (it's clear & Rig has a slight amber tint). Neither one contains Ammonia, neither one stinks bad and neither one harms any material I know of on firearms. AGAIN....... if a routine is done after each use, you should never have a gun so dirty that it needs super powerful chemicals.

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I have never used Rig but I love Remoil. It was always sold as both a cleaner and lubricant, but it seems most people only use it as an oil. But it works well for general cleaning, and like you said if the gun is kept clean there is little need for more powerful chemicals.

On a nickel gun how do you remove the black deposits on the the frame surrounding the forcing cone?

For general purpose cleaning of every type, I've settled on Ballistol or Clenzoil. Based on a lengthy correspondence with barrel maker Will Schumann at the beginning of the 2000's I stopped putting anything down bores except for perhaps an annual or once every six months scrubbing using patches of Mili-Tec and JB bore paste. Based on some extensive research done back in the 90's Schumman and some others found that it's virtually impossible to get all the solvent out of a barrel and that over time it can cause more damage than not cleaning at all. JB bore paste will pretty well knock out all copper and lead fouling while not leaving anything behind. Other than that, keep your chambers clean and just shoot.

New bluing process....

Hondo44 said:

I believe the warning is due to some parts that are not metal. The 1st example that comes to mind is the J frame. Sometime in the distant past after about the 1960s, the mainspring seat was changed from steel to some form of plastic.

I'm sure there are many other models as the guns became more modernized.

In the old days we were warned not to use products with ammonia on nickel plated gun because it flaked off the plating. As it turned out, S&Ws were safe.

Because the ammonia did not attack the nickel, only the copper pre plating, which it would dissolve, leaving the nickel plate without adherence to the metal. However, S&W did not pre plate with copper!

Click to expand...

A ways back they replaced their bluing method with one that was more 'environmentally friendly'. The problem is that anything with ammonia in it will turn the blued surfaces violet. Some say it looks more like plum, but either way, you probably don't want a gun that color.

Last June I took up Shotgun Shooting Sports, ie. Trap, Skeet, & Sporting Clays. Something I wasn't aware of when I started was all the Plastic Fouling left behind by the Wads used in modern shotgun ammunition. Means that after a day at the range I have do get all that crud out of my barrels. After a fair amount of experimenting I've found the best solvent to use is Ballistol, so the day may dome when I order it by the gallon. One big plus for Ballistol is that it's a Cleaner, Lubricant, and Protectant. Having discovered RUST on one ejector Spring during a deep cleaning of my 20 gage O/U you can be sure that the only cleaner I'll use in the future is Ballistol.

PS; anyone who hasn't tried busting some Clays should think about trying the Shotgun Sports out. Because while it isn't nearly as easy as it looks it's a heck of a thrill when you bust your first clay into dust and it just gets better after that.

I believe that there are a number of non ammonia cleaners out there. I use Break Free CLP. Hoppes makes non- ammonia cleaners. M Pro7 is another.

notsofast said:

On a nickel gun how do you remove the black deposits on the the frame surrounding the forcing cone?

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I have a nickel 6 inch Python that I use FLITZ metal polish to remove all the black deposits and to remove the burn rings on the front of the cylinder. Just go easy. It takes a few minutes but it works

CCantu357 said:

I have never used Rig but I love Remoil. It was always sold as both a cleaner and lubricant, but it seems most people only use it as an oil. But it works well for general cleaning, and like you said if the gun is kept clean there is little need for more powerful chemicals.

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If you use & like Remoil, you will love Rig #2 Oil (sold at MidwayUSA as well as Mid South) as I believe it to be a better product. It is available in both a 4.5 ounce can with a "Zippo lighter fluid type" dispenser and an aerosol spray can too. For the most part I use and like the can over the spray as it is a lot more precise and doesn't spray all over things however I also have a spray can around for larger jobs. Unless I am storing a gun for an extended period of time it is the only product I use for cleaning, lubrication and rust prevention - and it works GREAT! Smells nice too. I find it is a little better than Remoil however Remoil is clear, whereas Rig#2 has a slight Amber tint so I do not like to use it on guns with Ivory $ Stag.

Rig #2 is an old product that has a loyal following. It is certainly not one of the new "space age miracle products" that get hyped up but it has been tried, proven and is still in demand decades and decades later.

I always keep a can in the Garage, Work Shop and Car for use on anything that requires lubing, rust prevention and cleaning! I believe it still costs $4.95 / can.