Using Transmission Oil To Clean Guns.

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delta-419

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I like to restore old guns to shooting condition. A lot of the old 1894 Winchesters and S&Ws are over 100 years old and are coated with layers, of powder, hardened grease/oil and plain old dirt. When I take them apart I soak them in ATF for days or weeks. What is your experience using the "red" stuff?
I think its great stuff. Please let us hear from like users!
 
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mmaher94087 said:
"Ed's Red" is a 50/50 mixture of ATF and Acetone and has been used for years as a penetrating oil/cleaner. I swear by it. Add in Fine BRONZE Wool and rust runs far away. Careful - it's very flammable.
Click to expand...

Actually, Ed’s Red as he developed it is a tripartite mix with equal parts of ATF, acetone, and Stoddard’s Solvent. A later variation of his mix had some lanolin added. Each of the components makes its own contribution to the overall effectiveness of the mixture, but the ATF alone probably wouldn’t have the penetrating ability of the whole mix.

Froggie

Correction: As posted by Ed himself, there is a fourth component in the original formula, K-1 Kerosene, with all four liquids in equal parts then the optional lanolin at a rate of one pound per gallon of the four part mix. I must have sniffed too much solvent over the years... my memory is going! :rolleyes:
 
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mmaher94087 said:
"Ed's Red" is a 50/50 mixture of ATF and Acetone and has been used for years as a penetrating oil/cleaner. I swear by it. Add in Fine BRONZE Wool and rust runs far away. Careful - it's very flammable.
Click to expand...

Didn't the original Ed's Red use a dash of paint thinner, or kerosene? I can't recall for sure, but there's probably a recipe with and without either on the internet. About the only thing I've found that does not allow it to evaporate, is a container like the acetone comes in. I used a metal powder can, but I forgot to add a seal under the lid. Still lasted almost 2 years.

I've put disassembled handguns in a double ziplock for a week at a time, and the stuff works great at cutting the old crud and loosening freckles. Finish removing with a copper penny. (pre-'82?)

Love to see some of those old guns delta-419! Maybe even some before - after pics! We can wait. :D
 
All I do is disassemble the entire gun, soak all the small parts, springs and screws in Hoppes 9 for an hour or two and then use a toothbrush to scrub off any dried oil, grease or crud. My experience is that if it doesn't come off in a few hours it needs to be scrubbed. If it's really stubborn I will use a Brass or Bronze brush. After that, I will lightly oil and reassemble. I see no real reason to use ATF, Acetone, etc. that was not really meant for the purpose - but if it works for you - what the heck. I don't like using Acetone anymore than I absolutely need to and is my last resort when using solvents. Aside from which I love the smell of Old #9 and I like to see how many minutes it takes for my Wife to complain - LOL! :D
 
Acetone, ATF and all the other ingredients makes for a nasty brew and it shouldn't be taken lightly. Use all the protective gear. The one thing that this concoction will do is to loosen parts that are stuck together. I will use store bought formulas IF I can get the piece disassembled. If the item does not come apart then it gets a dip in Ed's Red.
 
Ed's Red is just as safe as any similar product on the market, and works far better than anything else I've tried. I have used it to loosen screws in rusty 71/84 Mauser rifles back when I was building them from parts guns bought from SARCO and Classic Arms. Also considering the price to make it compared to say Kroil Oil it makes no sense not to.
 
Another vote for Marvel Mystery Oil. Keep in mind that stuff is tasked with freeing up crudded up valve train components. Doesn’t smell that bad either...........��
 
OK. I have what is probably an incredibly dumb question. In the old days (when I was a teenager), there used to be Ford, GM and Chrysler ATF. Were these different or all the same?

When y'all talk about using ATF (or mixing with acetone), is there a particular brand or type to use?
 
kraynky said:
Didn't the original Ed's Red use a dash of paint thinner, or kerosene?
Click to expand...



1 part Dexron ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent.
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.


In Ed's own words:

https://blog.roninsgrips.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/EdsRed.pdf


I always bought acetone in gallon cans. I've used a bunch over the years cleaning and degreasing guns, so I have plenty of gallon cans to mix Ed's Red in. ;)
I forget which gallon of Ed's I'm on now.......4th?....5th?
 
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I hate the smell of transmission fluid.... reminds me of being stuck as the one doing all the transmission work one summer.... couldn't stand to deal with it that long anymore.
 
jmace57 said:
OK. I have what is probably an incredibly dumb question. In the old days (when I was a teenager), there used to be Ford, GM and Chrysler ATF. Were these different or all the same?

When y'all talk about using ATF (or mixing with acetone), is there a particular brand or type to use?
Click to expand...

GM and Chrysler used Type A(Dexron), Ford used Type F. Many hot rodders in the day with GM cars and maybe Chry. would run F even though it wasn’t the “correct” fluid. Supposedly it was thicker.
Now days the different ATFs would boggle your mind. Type A, F, ATF+4, Dexron IV, Mercon IV + V, plus the mysteriously named “Multi Vehicle” and “Low Viscosity Multi Vehicle Low Viscosity”. These are just to name few. There are more. On cars, follow the mfg. recommendations. Usually in the manual and on the dip stick.
For gun cleaning I’ve read and use Dexron III. Orginal Dexron was superseded by Dex. II , then III. They are organic oil based.
Though I’ve never tried it, people say to avoid the synthetic as it doesn’t mix well with acetone and will separate.
 
If I remember correctly COL Hatcher used sperm whale oil in his mixture and as cars used to use sperm oil in automatic transmissions ATF is the closest substitute.
 
handejector said:
1 part Dexron ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent.
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.


In Ed's own words:

https://blog.roninsgrips.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/EdsRed.pdf


I always bought acetone in gallon cans. I've used a bunch over the years cleaning and degreasing guns, so I have plenty of gallon cans to mix Ed's Red in. ;)
I forget which gallon of Ed's I'm on now.......4th?....5th?
Click to expand...

Yes - the original ER did have Kerosene - as do many of the popular Bore Cleaners have or had. I also believe one of the main components in WD-40 is Kerosene.

While Acetone works well as a cleaning agent, it also plays badly with some modern materials used these days. My workbench top surface is made of a material called Centra (basically a rubberized plastic material - great for absorbing impact without cracking) and it easts through that if not wiped off immediately. Even if wiped up right away it will still etch it. I have also noticed that it eats through Nitrile Gloves when being used straight out of the can.

While I know many chemicals we use are toxic and aggressive - to me Acetone is one of the worst offenders and so it has become a last resort solvent for me. YMMV. My only suggestion is that it's best to use stronger solvents outdoors while wearing gloves and glasses. As we get older - we get smarter...... :o
 
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