.38 Special load recipes for IDPA?

Gryff · Sep 6, 2013

I'm going to start loading .38 Special for shooting IDPA. Most likely using moly coated lead bullets or less-expensive plated/jacketed bullets (such as Berry's). Can anyone share info on what loads have worked best for them in run-and-gun type competitions?

Thanks!

Harrison · Sep 6, 2013

Its pretty simple. Any reloading manual is full of loads that will make a 125 power factor and are moderately accurate. It's not like bullseye shooting. Bullseye and 231/hp38 are powders that are known to work well in 38 special. There are dozens of bullets that will all work equally well for IDPA

Waywatcher · Sep 6, 2013

Well, for stock service revolver, power factor is only 105 these days.

For a 125, it means 840fps minimum.

For a 158, it means 665fps minimum.

I've had good luck with 4.0 grains of Trail Boss under a 158 grain lead. It is incredibly clean, which is nice when shooting a lot of rounds. It makes power factor in my 3" 10. I don't think Trail Boss is recommended for plated bullets, though. With Trail Boss, plain lead bullets are remarkably clean and worth a try.

Gryff · Sep 6, 2013

Harrison said:
Its pretty simple. Any reloading manual is full of loads that will make a 125 power factor and are moderately accurate. It's not like bullseye shooting. Bullseye and 231/hp38 are powders that are known to work well in 38 special. There are dozens of bullets that will all work equally well for IDPA

Yes, I know that books will have basic information. I was asking for first-hand experience from IDPA competitors because they will understand issues like minimizing recoil, avoiding smokiness, using "cleaner" recipes that won't gunk up the gun as fast. Reloading manuals don't generally address issues like that.

BobR1 · Sep 6, 2013

My most used load.

Federal Small Pistol Primers (Easiest to fire with a trigger Job)
158/160 Round Nose Lead Bullets
5.0 grains of Unique

I shoot:
Defensive Pistol
Reactive Steel
ICORE with some Reactive Steel

The Steel is why I load 5.0 grains of Unique. I have also used 5.5 grains of SR4756, as well as 4.6 grains of 20/28. All are about equal in speed from my 4" barrel. All 3 loads will break 800 fps with no problem. 800 X 158 = 126,400

I do not shoot indoors at all. Unique is not a problem for me shooting outdoors.
Unique and SR4756 both seem to me to be fairly soft shooting loads.

I am a Senior, and us old guys have been using Unique for a long time. It works well, shoots fairly soft, it is not known for surprises.

Just my 2 Cents.

Bob

cyberiad · Sep 7, 2013

Federal primers with OAL at 1.500. I use around 3.3 gr Solo 1000 with a 158gr LRN bullet. I have used Dardas, Mid-Atlantic and Laser Cast/Oregon Trail. The latter are my favorite bullet but they are very expensive. I usually buy Dardas if they are available but he has a long lead time now according to his website. If I needed more I would put in a large order and wait.

This puts me about 110PF. I like Solo 1000 because it's a "single base" powder and creates less smoke with lead though on a hot, humid morning at a match less smoke has still meant I can't see a target very well but that happens with the same powder and FMJ too.

If Solo 1000 isn't available about the same amount of Clays will do as well. I have also used Berry's 158 but prefer lead. I have not used moly bullets in any revolver but shooters I know have used Bayou Bullets and others with success. You'll need a bit more powder with Berry's. I have read that Berry's can be loaded with lead bullet recipes but this has not been my experience in trying to make power.

With correctly-sized lead bullets I get no leading to speak of. There is some lead in the barrel but I don't feel the bore has to be spotlessly clean. I bought a Lewis lead remover and never opened it. Remington makes a plastic jag that fits the bore tightly and I pull this through and that's it, no solvent.

After the rule changed I went all the way down to 105PF with Solo 1000 and Trail Boss with lead bullets but it was too light for me.

hberttmank · Sep 7, 2013

I use 4.3grs of 231 with a Berry 158 round nose plated bullet. Either Winchester or CCI primers. This load makes the 125 power factor, I never dropped down when they changed it to 105, I like to have plenty of power for knocking down steel poppers when used. I don't have any smoke to speak of, and the round nose bullets are the easiest and quickest to load into the cylinder. I use Safariland Comp3 speedloaders in a Ruger GP100 4".

Paul4895 · Sep 8, 2013

I tried the lower PF 105 when the rule changed and it was to soft for me and I had trouble knocking steel over. I went back to the load which I use for everything and that is my ICORE load.

The load is 3.4 gr of Clays with a 160 gr RNL that I cast myself. I shoot this load out of a 4" 686 ssr in IDPA and a 6" mod 14 in ICORE. This load makes 127 pf out of the 6" and 123 pf out of the 4"

The load is accurate and clean, I can shoot a full 6 stage IDPA or ICORE match without having to scrub the cylinders between stages.

ampegor · Sep 8, 2013

158 plated tc bullet
3.2 of clays
fed spp
nice crimp for fast speed load
makes pf
little to no smoke and very very clean

OKFC05 · Sep 8, 2013

As others noted, the current IDPA PF in SSR is 105, but I use my ICORE load for simplicity: Berry 158gr over 4.3gr HP38/Win231. I load them a little short for ease of reloads. (1.455) Federal SP primers.
I would have to look up how many tens of thousands of these I've shot in a 686 and 66?

Lead shoots fine, but the lube smoke annoys me when shooting fast through the smoke.

The "ring buildup" often ranted about is a non-issue if you clean the cylinders regularly. I use the Brownells "tornado" brush just for the cylinder.

Moly coated bullets cause more trouble than help in high-volume competition shooting, IMHO.

Waywatcher · Sep 8, 2013

I honestly haven't shot any steel with my 3" M10 using my load of 4.0 grains of Trail Boss under a 158 lead, but I have shot IDPA with it and over a chronograph. I use magnum primers because they get a higher velocity, lower spread, and better accuracy in my experience with this particular load.

From my 3" M10, I get a power factor of 118 which I think would work dandy on steel. The same load in my 4" M15 barely squeaks out 125 power factor. (My 3" actually measures 2 15/16" and my 4" is actually 4 1/16")

I really like the peace of mind with using Trail Boss; it is so fluffy it is impossible to overcharge a .38 special; 4.2 grains is the max load and it fills the case to the base of a 158 lead bullet.

Cd586 · Sep 9, 2013

Trail Boss will not drive a Berry's 158 grain even fast enough to make 105 PF.

Gryff · Sep 9, 2013

Guys, thanks for the input. I chrono'd my factory ammo yesterday and was disgusted that it was only reach 87PF. I think some of the smaller manufacturers are skimping on powder to save money.

Since I have a sanctioned IDPA match in three weeks, I'm very eager to start reloading my own so that I know that I'm making power.

Waywatcher · Sep 9, 2013

Cd586 said:
Trail Boss will not drive a Berry's 158 grain even fast enough to make 105 PF.

Trail Boss should only be used with lead bullets.

It makes IDPA power factor just fine with 158 grain lead bullets, even with a shorter barrel. Even makes 125 power factor in my 4" barrel.

Waywatcher · Sep 9, 2013

Gryff said:
Guys, thanks for the input. I chrono'd my factory ammo yesterday and was disgusted that it was only reach 87PF. I think some of the smaller manufacturers are skimping on powder to save money.

Since I have a sanctioned IDPA match in three weeks, I'm very eager to start reloading my own so that I know that I'm making power.

87?

Do tell what brand this wimpy ammo was!

growr · Sep 9, 2013

The 5.0 grn of Unique with a 158 RNL/SWC has worked very for myself and many other IDPA/ICORE I have shot with.

Might work for you as well.....

Randy

Cd586 · Sep 11, 2013

Waywatcher said:
Trail Boss should only be used with lead bullets.

It makes IDPA power factor just fine with 158 grain lead bullets, even with a shorter barrel. Even makes 125 power factor in my 4" barrel.

Yes, just wanted to inform anyone reading not to try to duplicate the results with plated bullets. I wish Trail Boss was a better deal, I use it for casual applications.

crazdgunman · Jan 24, 2014

I've been shooting Stock Service Revolver division IDPA matches for a while, and was fortunate enough to win the California championship last year.

Maybe I'm full of ****, but here's my opinion:

Proper bullet selection is critical, as not just anything will do. You want to stay away from plain lead, because the smoke obscures the target too much in fast strings.

You need a jacketed bullet with a pointy round nose. You'll be using speed loaders, and blunt or semi-wadcutters just slow the loading process. You need a bullet profile that jumps into the chamber without any hang-up. Fractions of a second add up fast.

Most "round nose" 158 grain bullets are actually pretty blunt. The 147 grain bullets intended for loading .38 Super's are the ticket. Just make sure you can get them in .357 diameter. Heavier is better, so if you find a 158 or 180 grain bullet with that pointy-round shape, let me know.

The second issue is a powder that doesn't leave unburnt grains in the chambers. The last thing you need is a cartridge that doesn't seat flush that you have to thumb down. Hodgdon Titegroup is my favorite. It burns a little hot, but clean.

Another thing is making sure your sizing die gets rid of that bulge just above the rim. My carbide RCBS dies *don't*, and I had to switch. The bulge makes for a slightly tighter fit that can also hang a cartridge up in a dirty chamber.

And having a nice crimp that doesn't leave a sharp case mouth that hangs up on the chamber mouth edge is important. You should have your chambers mouths chamfered, of course, but every little bit helps.

The last thing is accuracy.

The hard fact is that IDPA revolver division is won on target engagement and transition speed, reloading speed, and only "combat level" accuracy. A guy with a load that shoots into a lazy three inches at twenty-five yards is not handicapped against a guy that shoots ragged one-groups off a bench. Most any load does that. If it's better, great, it's a bonus.

n9znd · Jan 30, 2014

"Most "round nose" 158 grain bullets are actually pretty blunt. The 147 grain bullets intended for loading .38 Super's are the ticket. Just make sure you can get them in .357 diameter. Heavier is better, so if you find a 158 or 180 grain bullet with that pointy-round shape, let me know."

I have been using 158 G. from Black and Blue Bullets with the Hi-Tek coating and they work great. I also use Titegroup. You may look at them. Tony will jump though hoops to make people happy. Jim

growr · Feb 6, 2014

I have been using 147 grain truncated cone 9mm projectiles that drops from my mold at .357. They feed SO well and are plenty accurate....

I also use them in SASS as they also feed so smooth in my M66 lever gun. Still using 5 grains of Unique just like my 158's........Might work for you as well.......

Randy

.38 Special load recipes for IDPA?

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