With a 16 inch barrel on the M&P 15 22, how much velocity is lost ? What is the velocity of A CCI Mini Mag shot from this Rifle ? Just wondering if anyone has any info.
muzzle velocity of a 22LR in a M&P15 22
- Thread starter rhino57
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actually 16" in a 22lr is supposed to be the magic number for a full powder burn and exspansion of gasses... anythin longer you loose vel. and anything shorter you loose vel. of coarse there are alot of varibles and milage may vary but as a rule of thumb 16 is the number on a 22 lr... ive got several suppression books that document it
lonejacklarry
US Veteran
Mini Mag velocity
CCI advertises that the muzzle velocity for the Mini Mag is 1,235 fps. They don't elaborate on barrel length or lack of it. I'd stick w/ belt_fed for that type of info.
1,235 fps is about 840 mph. Multiply fps x .68 to get mph. To get fps from mph, multiply mph x 1.47 (the inverse).
Whew! That made my head hurt. It's been a very long time since I had to figure speed from skid and stuff.
CCI advertises that the muzzle velocity for the Mini Mag is 1,235 fps. They don't elaborate on barrel length or lack of it. I'd stick w/ belt_fed for that type of info.
1,235 fps is about 840 mph. Multiply fps x .68 to get mph. To get fps from mph, multiply mph x 1.47 (the inverse).
Whew! That made my head hurt. It's been a very long time since I had to figure speed from skid and stuff.
arizona98tj
US Veteran
The following are 10 shot averages clocked 12' from the muzzle of my 15-22 using my PACT choronograph:
Winchester T-22 1106 FPS
CCI MiniMag 1111 FPS
Federal Bulk 1189 FPS
Remington Thunderbolt 1211 FPS
Augilia Hyper Velocity 1522 FPS
Worst grouping was from the Augilia, 2.58" @ 25 yds.
Best grouping was from the Winchester T-22, 1.03" @ 25 yds.
This data was gathered back in October, 2009.
Winchester T-22 1106 FPS
CCI MiniMag 1111 FPS
Federal Bulk 1189 FPS
Remington Thunderbolt 1211 FPS
Augilia Hyper Velocity 1522 FPS
Worst grouping was from the Augilia, 2.58" @ 25 yds.
Best grouping was from the Winchester T-22, 1.03" @ 25 yds.
This data was gathered back in October, 2009.
lonejacklarry
US Veteran
Odd that the quickest ammo, Augilia Hyper Velocity, had the worst grouping and the slowest ammo, Winchester T-22, had the best grouping.
Coincidence?
chuck s
Member
Bullets that transition the sound barrier (1125 fps at sea level on a "standard day.") become less stable when that happens. The essentially wobble a bit and may (or may not) settle back down.
Pretty sure .22LR bench-rest guys use sub-sonic bullets for this very reason.
-- Chuck
Pretty sure .22LR bench-rest guys use sub-sonic bullets for this very reason.
-- Chuck
not really, chuck is speaking the truth .. a 50 bmg isnt as accu. till after 100 yds the groups get tighter after that the bullet stablizes,,, a 22 barly breaks the 1050+ ambiant air temp. marker so the pressure wave tends to add stress on the bullet... ive got a very exspensive custom barrel on a 10/22 and it wont shout 10" groups with those super maximum hyper rds they make.. but some good ole wolf match extra or some eley... you better look out
ArcaneFlame
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not really, chuck is speaking the truth .. a 50 bmg isnt as accu. till after 100 yds the groups get tighter after that the bullet stablizes,,, a 22 barly breaks the 1050+ ambiant air temp. marker so the pressure wave tends to add stress on the bullet... ive got a very exspensive custom barrel on a 10/22 and it wont shout 10" groups with those super maximum hyper rds they make.. but some good ole wolf match extra or some eley... you better look out
Same here... With my custom target 10/22 I shoot sub-sonic rounds 90% of the time. I don't put anything hotter than standard velocity through it as the accuracy goes downhill fast. I get incredible accuracy with sub-sonic rounds though. So I'll add another +1 supporting what Chuck has said.
arizona98tj
US Veteran
While I don't do long distance shooting, I've heard/read the transition of a bullet form super-sonic to sub-sonic is even worse than going the other way, in regards to accuracy. It is already super-sonic before it leaves the barrel.
chuck s
Member
The transonic problem is well known. Those of us shooting high velocity bullets, say, 5.56mm NATO at velocities greater than 3000 fps are rarely presented with it at combat ranges as the velocity stays super-sonic, but it has significant effects with long range shooting -- and low velocity .22LR shooting (!).
Click for a long article on ballistics.
The transonic problem is quoted below. Note the linked article is mainly concerned with long range "sniper" or hunting shooting and notes the best results are usually achieved if the bullet is kept super-sonic at all target ranges. Since .22LR is barely super-sonic anywhere the best results should be to keep it sub-sonic at all ranges so there's no transonic transition. The transonic transition explains why hyper velocity .22LR is less accurate than standard velocity bullets at many distances.
Click for a long article on ballistics.
The transonic problem is quoted below. Note the linked article is mainly concerned with long range "sniper" or hunting shooting and notes the best results are usually achieved if the bullet is kept super-sonic at all target ranges. Since .22LR is barely super-sonic anywhere the best results should be to keep it sub-sonic at all ranges so there's no transonic transition. The transonic transition explains why hyper velocity .22LR is less accurate than standard velocity bullets at many distances.
-- Chuck
Pivo
Member
Hey Chuck, this is great insight!
Would it be fair to conclude that to avoid transonic issue on the M&P15-22, one could shorten the barrel to let's say 14" or even 12" to ensure that the projectile is continuously subsonic?
Would it be fair to conclude that to avoid transonic issue on the M&P15-22, one could shorten the barrel to let's say 14" or even 12" to ensure that the projectile is continuously subsonic?
Kayback
Member
The bullets cross from sub sonic to super sonic while still in the barrel so that will not upset them. The only thing they do outside the barrel is slow down and going trans sonic does destabilize them a bit, which is why things like the 7.62NATO is limited to around 800m for sniper accuracy.
I've never heard of ammunition requiring time to "stabilize" out of a barrel, I though that was the whole point of barrel crowns and the like, to ensure the bullet is not upset as it leaves the barrel?
I will add that from my pistol I thought HV ammunition would work better because of the loss of the barrel length for velocity's sake compared to a 16" but still be a higher sub-sonic speed. I've found many different brand's standard velocity has given much better accuracy results than HV ammunition.
I'm also curious as to what's a good barrel length for "ensured" sub sonic speeds from various .22 LR's. (given a standard atmosphere)
KBK
I've never heard of ammunition requiring time to "stabilize" out of a barrel, I though that was the whole point of barrel crowns and the like, to ensure the bullet is not upset as it leaves the barrel?
I will add that from my pistol I thought HV ammunition would work better because of the loss of the barrel length for velocity's sake compared to a 16" but still be a higher sub-sonic speed. I've found many different brand's standard velocity has given much better accuracy results than HV ammunition.
I'm also curious as to what's a good barrel length for "ensured" sub sonic speeds from various .22 LR's. (given a standard atmosphere)
KBK
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Pivo
Member
Is there a table with a reference muzzle velocity for diff barel length?
I am specifically looking for 16" vs 14" vs 12" (or close to it), given specific ammo make, load & projectile.
I am specifically looking for 16" vs 14" vs 12" (or close to it), given specific ammo make, load & projectile.
sprocketeer
Member
Very interesting thread!
I would never have guessed that the subs would be more accurate. My 15-22 has a 10.5" barrel and I would love to know what ammo stays sub-sonic. I have only run Federal Auto-Match through it since it was shortened and I know that was not sub-sonic.
I would never have guessed that the subs would be more accurate. My 15-22 has a 10.5" barrel and I would love to know what ammo stays sub-sonic. I have only run Federal Auto-Match through it since it was shortened and I know that was not sub-sonic.
strobro32
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rraisley
Member
VERY neat site. Thanks! Surprisingly to me, 22" seems to result in the maximum velocity for most rounds, and almost all are a fair bit slower than stated velocities in our 16-17" barrels. No wonder my bullet fall spreadsheet is a bit out!
Pivo
Member
Great reference. Thanks a stack!
Aceman58
Member
Great feed back, but you guys just took the fun out of shooting the 22LR for me, now I'm thinking transonic, velocity when it was just pure fun before.... gee thanks.
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