M&P 15-22 Pistol

XcessiveCarts

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The wife and I are really Itching to get 15-22 pistols. Since they have been discontinued, they are impossible to find. Been checking the usual gun auction sites, but Nothing. Anybody know where they are available?
 
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I don't know if you heard but there was apparently a open invitation to all the owners of the M&P pistol to attend a 3 day cruise and shoot a few months back. Apparently everyone who owned one showed up. As a result the ship listed to one side from the weight of all the ammo and pistols that had to secured in their vault. They have all been lost to the sea.
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Can't you make one by cutting the barrel and quad rail then removing the fake buffer tube. Isn't that the only difference? Once the tube is removed it's no longer a rifle so the barrel can be made shorter. Are there any laws to prevent this?
 
Nope! :cool: You were fine until you got to the part about cutting the barrel. It started life as a rifle, so if you cut the barrel it then becomes a Short Barrel Rifle. It must be then registered as such through the BATFE and you must pay a $200 transfer tax. There are other details in between those two steps, but you see where this is going. With the way "things" are going right now, TheLandonMac's $1500 price tag may not be too far out of line! :eek:
 
I've actually turned DOWN $1500......way too much FUN!!!!
 

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I'd never pay $1500 for any .22 LR unless it were an olympic gold medal winning rifle.

I would have guessed that once the stock was "permenently" removed it would not longer be classified as a rifle. If the total rifle length is too short from cutting the tube it's a illegal rifle too. Couldn't the rifle be de-butted and reclassified somehow? I don't know gunsmithing law. How do you know for sure it cannot be removed legally?
 
There is an ATF letter around somewhere that somewhat clarifies the rifle and pistol conversion process...although I can't find it right off hand.

What I'm going to give examples of is with an AR style platform since it's easy to change because of the upper/lower receiver. It would work the same with rebarreling and action of a firearm where the upper doesn't quickly detach and reattach.

If a firearm starts it's life as an pistol, it can then have a longer barrel attached to it and it's still a pistol. If the barrel is long enough and then you add a shoulder stock to it and meets the barrel and overall length requirements, it becomes a rifle. After this, the stock can be removed and it's a pistol again. After this step the barrel could be changed to be shorter than required for a rifle, as it is again a pistol. If the barrel and overall length are too short before the shoulder stock comes off, it's a short barreled rifle and subject to NFA regulations ($200 making/transfer tax, etc. - stiff fines/penalties for illegal posession)

If a firearm starts it's life as a rifle it can't be converted to a pistol. It can be converted to a short barreled rifle (NFA, $200, etc.)

If a firearm starts it's life as an "other" (not an NFA item Any Other Weapon or AOW), it can be built into either a rifle or pistol. This is usually the stripped lower. If it's built into pistol first it can be converted back and forth per the example above. If it is built into a rifle first it is a rifle unless you go through the NFA process to make it a short barreled rifle. Because an "other" can be built into a pistol, an FFL cannot transfer it to a person under 21 years of age.

As far as I know S&W have not sold stripped lowers. The lower receiver for the pistol also doesn't have the "buffer tube" and stock, so it would be difficult to attach a stock to it to make a pistol into a rifle with that model. Because of the way the stock is defined, in a standard AR the buffer tube alone without a stock doesn't count as a stock, which is why you can have an AR pistol (the buffer tube is integral in the function of a standard AR). Since the "buffer tube" of the 15-22 isn't required for use of the firearm, I'm not sure if having a "buffer tube" would count as a stock or not on a pistol as it isn't integral to the function.

So it would be very difficult to make a 15-22 pistol into a rifle if you wanted it to be dual duty since it doesn't have the "buffer tube." And it would be difficult to make a 15-22 rifle into a pistol as you would have to make it an NFA item. It would also have to retain the "buffer tube" making it not an exact clone of the 15-22 pistol.

If S&W happened to sell the stripped lowers in pistol form (without "buffer tube"), it would pretty much only be useful as a pistol -- unless someone were to figure out a way to attach a buffer tube and stock with the proper integrity. If they happened to sell stripped lowers in rifle form (with "buffer tube") it would mimic a standard AR pistol/rifle conversion process, so long as you built it as a pistol first.
 
There is an ATF letter around somewhere that somewhat clarifies the rifle and pistol conversion process...although I can't find it right off hand.

What I'm going to give examples of is with an AR style platform since it's easy to change because of the upper/lower receiver. It would work the same with rebarreling and action of a firearm where the upper doesn't quickly detach and reattach.

If a firearm starts it's life as an pistol, it can then have a longer barrel attached to it and it's still a pistol. If the barrel is long enough and then you add a shoulder stock to it and meets the barrel and overall length requirements, it becomes a rifle. After this, the stock can be removed and it's a pistol again. After this step the barrel could be changed to be shorter than required for a rifle, as it is again a pistol. If the barrel and overall length are too short before the shoulder stock comes off, it's a short barreled rifle and subject to NFA regulations ($200 making/transfer tax, etc. - stiff fines/penalties for illegal posession)

If a firearm starts it's life as a rifle it can't be converted to a pistol. It can be converted to a short barreled rifle (NFA, $200, etc.)

If a firearm starts it's life as an "other" (not an NFA item Any Other Weapon or AOW), it can be built into either a rifle or pistol. This is usually the stripped lower. If it's built into pistol first it can be converted back and forth per the example above. If it is built into a rifle first it is a rifle unless you go through the NFA process to make it a short barreled rifle. Because an "other" can be built into a pistol, an FFL cannot transfer it to a person under 21 years of age.

As far as I know S&W have not sold stripped lowers. The lower receiver for the pistol also doesn't have the "buffer tube" and stock, so it would be difficult to attach a stock to it to make a pistol into a rifle with that model. Because of the way the stock is defined, in a standard AR the buffer tube alone without a stock doesn't count as a stock, which is why you can have an AR pistol (the buffer tube is integral in the function of a standard AR). Since the "buffer tube" of the 15-22 isn't required for use of the firearm, I'm not sure if having a "buffer tube" would count as a stock or not on a pistol as it isn't integral to the function.

So it would be very difficult to make a 15-22 pistol into a rifle if you wanted it to be dual duty since it doesn't have the "buffer tube." And it would be difficult to make a 15-22 rifle into a pistol as you would have to make it an NFA item. It would also have to retain the "buffer tube" making it not an exact clone of the 15-22 pistol.

If S&W happened to sell the stripped lowers in pistol form (without "buffer tube"), it would pretty much only be useful as a pistol -- unless someone were to figure out a way to attach a buffer tube and stock with the proper integrity. If they happened to sell stripped lowers in rifle form (with "buffer tube") it would mimic a standard AR pistol/rifle conversion process, so long as you built it as a pistol first.



I feel like you just wasted a lot of time...are you unaware of what this thread is about??

smith&wesson makes the 15-22 pistols...nobody was talking about making one of their own..or converting anything at all..
 
...are you unaware of what this thread is about

smith&wesson makes the 15-22 pistols...nobody was talking about making one...

I feel like you didn't read the entire thread...try again. Also, quoting my entire post wasted a lot of space.

The pistol is discontinued and at a premium price from what I read (you said $1500, right).

You apparently didn't read ESW's posts. He did inquire about converting a rifle to pistol to save money from having to buy the discontinued pistol at a premium price. It's possible if you make an SBR, but that comes with restrictions and hassle. Cheaper than buying the pistol version though.

Because what he was insinuating was potentially illegal, I was hoping to explain why it would be and the alternatives, as well as their potential advantages and disadvantages.
 
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I feel like you didn't read the entire thread...try again. Also, quoting my entire post wasted a lot of space.

The pistol is discontinued and at a premium price from what I read (you said $1500, right).

You apparently didn't read ESW's posts. He did inquire about converting a rifle to pistol to save money from having to buy the discontinued pistol at a premium price. It's possible if you make an SBR, but that comes with restrictions and hassle. Cheaper than buying the pistol version though.

Because what he was insinuating was potentially illegal, I was hoping to explain why it would be and the alternatives, as well as their potential advantages and disadvantages.

Another classic case of posting before reading...
 
Weird thing is I recently inquired with the Smith&Wesson company Historian regarding Serial #'s and total number of units made for that one year period.
He said the Company is not releasing that info.
Is that unusual??
 
Good info above.

For the record S&W, from what I learned makes a converter. You can remove the rear plug that holds the sling mount on the pistol and insert a metal component that accepts a standard, threaded AR buffer tube, which allows you to add a stock. It's pretty slick and make the M&P 15-22 look more like a real ar-15.
 
Good info above.

For the record S&W, from what I learned makes a converter. You can remove the rear plug that holds the sling mount on the pistol and insert a metal component that accepts a standard, threaded AR buffer tube, which allows you to add a stock. It's pretty slick and make the M&P 15-22 look more like a real ar-15.

I am pretty sure that isn't legal.
That would make it an SBR (or AOW depending on config.), paperwork and ATF approval needed.
There is no workaround on these laws.
10 years in Fed Pen is just not worth it.
 
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I don't think SW made that converter. There was someone here who made them, or made one, specifically for an SBR project.

KBK
 
The only way that converter would be useful for something other than an SBR would be if you did have an extra upper with a long barrel that could be swapped out. Or if you at least had an extra full lenth barrel that you swapped into the upper before attaching the stock. It is possible, just a hassle.
 
I'd never pay $1500 for any .22 LR unless it were an olympic gold medal winning rifle.

I would have guessed that once the stock was "permenently" removed it would not longer be classified as a rifle. If the total rifle length is too short from cutting the tube it's a illegal rifle too. Couldn't the rifle be de-butted and reclassified somehow? I don't know gunsmithing law. How do you know for sure it cannot be removed legally?

I give up..................:p
 
Can't you make one by cutting the barrel and quad rail then removing the fake buffer tube. Isn't that the only difference? Once the tube is removed it's no longer a rifle so the barrel can be made shorter. Are there any laws to prevent this?

Sir, I strongly suggest you read up on the National Firearms Act, what it covers and the penalties for violating it. Your lack of knowledge is dangerous to your freedom.

No matter what you turn a rifle into, it was originally a rifle and will STILL be a rifle as far as the NFA is concerned.
 
The only way that converter would be useful for something other than an SBR would be if you did have an extra upper with a long barrel that could be swapped out. Or if you at least had an extra full lenth barrel that you swapped into the upper before attaching the stock. It is possible, just a hassle.

Not saying you are incorrect, I'm actually asking the question, but isn't the lower registered, meaning you can't really change anything without a stamp? Or does the stock matter as long as the barrel is over 18.5" or whatever? Maybe I just didn't understand you fully, if so, my apologies.
 

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