Has my 14-3 been modified to take .357?

[DWalt]

Very common to see N-frame original .38 Special revolvers with chambers lengthened to accept .357. I have one, from the mid-1950s, it handles .357 cartridges just fine. I have never seen a K-frame .38 Special revolver having lengthened chambers. Except the Model 19 which left the factory that way.

 

[sceva]

I had an acquaintance that reamed a Colt Diamondback to .357. I personally think he was a fool.

 

[johnjohn]

Leave Grandads gun alone and shoot .38 specials in it. Like it left the factory.

 

[DWalt]

Note that the Colt .357, .357 Trooper, and original Cobra revolvers were essentially mechanically identical to the everyday Colt Official Police .38 Special revolvers but with deeper chambers and frame mounted firing pins.

 

[HARLEY0]

Grandpa passed and I got his model 14-3. It was stored with a box of .38 special ammo and a little bag with 6 rounds of .357 magnum, with a note that said "these are the good ones" signed by someone I don't recognize.

Now Grandpa was in law enforcement and he told me before he passed that he cleaned his gun after every time it was fired. So I'm pretty sure he knew enough to not fire .357's out of his .38 revolver.

So I always just assumed that maybe he had a buddy that said, "bro, I shoot .357 out of my 38 revolver all the time and it works great." And this buddy left him 6 rounds with the note, and my Grandpa kept them but never fired them.

However, I just saw another thread on here where someone found a model 14-3 that has been modified to take .357 magnum. So now I'm wondering if Grandpa's gun is like that.

What do I need to look for to see if this gun has been modified and can safely shoot 357?

Put some .357's in (If they fit) Pull the trigger, if the gun goes bang and does not blow up then you OK! Just do not put Buffalo Bore ammo in it!

 

[Engine49guy]

S&W made a very small run of 4" Model 14-3 revolvers in that serial range, I have your guns twin 1k74318 shipped July 1971 from the same run,
(Might have been to a distributor in Tx or for Ashland cant recall and unfortunately theres nothing more in my notes).
Iirc there were a couple members with them that know the shipping destination and who ordered them.
On a side note the barrel and frame are both different than the Model 15 to 15-4 , the 15-5 is cosmetically identical to your gun sans barrel set pin,
Btw there was another 4" Model 14 variation with a heavier barrel called the "Hanen Special" made during the 14-2 revision ( not sure if any were made in the 14-3 era but maybe).
It is my belief that there were actually more of those made than your standard wide rib "Heavy Masterpiece " version.

Agree I wouldnt shoot those .357 rounds even if they fit just to be safe as they might be spicey hand loads that damage the gun.
Hopefully the cylinder hasn't been reemed as it would devalue the gun IMO and 4" Model 14-3's are not a common variation.

 

[bruce381]

Can the OP answer the only question that matters will a Factory 357 fit? yes or no? even if yes frame may not be heat treated to 357 pressure so only shoot 38 duh.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

4" 14-3 with a ramped front sight-wouldn't that be a Model 15/Combat Masterpiece. ?Read of 38-44s being reamed to take .357 but they are N-frames. Recall Bill Jordan saying S&W had to use a different heat treating for the M-19. I wouldn't fire .357s through it.

When the 4 in, 38 model 15 was discontinued...........S&W made 4 in model 14's for awhile.

 

[Engine49guy]

Actually the Model 15-5 , 15-6 and 15-7 changed to the wide rib Model 14 barrel available in 4",6" and 8,3/8" and the Model 14 got a new full underlug barrel in 4" and 6" ( not sure about 8,3/8")
Shown below are a wide rib 15-7 Left and a full underlug 14-6 Right.

 

[SG-688]

I read an article by Massad Ayoob back in the 80's , there was a gunsmith that re chambered M-10's to .357 and cut and welded the grip frame to make it smaller. According to him the heat treating and metal on both was the same and just had to use lighter shorter bullets.

​

Historical point:

June, 1987 Combat Handguns article on the custom snub M&P by Travis Strahan. Those revolvers have been discussed here in the past.

Strahan does not make the claim that .38 and .357 metal and heat treat are the same.

Ayoob:

"I'm not going to get into the theory here that S&W supposedly makes their .38 and .357 cylinders out of the exact same alloy and temper of steel."

"Let us read this as it is printed. In capital letters: " I. AND COMBAT HANDGUNS MAGAZINE, AND TRAVIS STRAHAN DISAVOW ANY KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR EXISTENCE IF YOU PUT .357 MAGNUM LOADS IN A GUN CHAMBERED FOR .38 SPECIAL AND BLOW YOURSELF UP!"

That said , I can tell you that my gun is cheerfully gobbling up Magnums. as is Van's. While Travis urges his police buyers to carry +P+ .38 Special loads in them and use the Magnum chambering only in emergency reload situations. everyone I know who has one loads his with Federal 125-grain Mag hollowpoints."

 

[Exchipy]

When I went through the CHP Academy as a cadet in 1968, Officer Bill Davis was the Range Master, and his duty revolver was a K-38 bored out to accept .357MAG rounds, which is what he carried in it. And, Bill definitely did not tend to do stupid stuff with guns.

 

[Moo Moo]

A mate of mine from my Pistol Club just purchased this Smolt from another state. He’s still waiting for it to arrive via his Gun Dealer. It’s marked as a Model 14-3 but the seller says it’s a .357 mag. It will be interesting to see what it is when it arrives. My friend is only intending on shooting .38 Specials in it anyway and it only cost him $300 AUD (about $195 USD).

 

[Exchipy]

A mate of mine from my Pistol Club just purchased this Smolt from another state. He’s still waiting for it to arrive via his Gun Dealer. It’s marked as a Model 14-3 but the seller says it’s a .357 mag. It will be interesting to see what it is when it arrives. My friend is only intending on shooting .38 Specials in it anyway and it only cost him $300 AUD (about $195 USD).

It’s possible that noted pistolsmith, former CHP Officer and PPC champion Bill Davis built that one, as he made many like it. So, it may be so marked in an out of the way location on it.

Those conversions were initially done in order to put the best of both Colt and S&W together in one revolver for PPC competitors. S&W K-Frame revolvers had the most easily shootable actions. But, S&W barrels, with their 18-3/8” rifling twist rate, would not always adequately stabilize the long 148gr. .38SPL HBWC bullets, causing them to yaw and stray a bit at 50 yards, if the weather was a bit cool. This situation was reversed with the Colt Pythons, as their actions were difficult to master (I never could); but their barrels were extraordinarily good. Colt Python barrels, at least in the early versions, had a bore interior which was tapered (choked?), growing ever so slightly tighter from the rear to the muzzle, perfect for the lead alloy of the HBWC bullets, and a 14” twist to adequately stabilize those long bullets. So, the Smolt was born.

A similar conversion was done using Ruger DA revolvers, as well, known as a Couger.

 

[Law-dog]

It was common for police officers to ream out the model 15 to accept the 357. A local cop here would do it for a reasonable fee.

The snub model 15 was especially desirable because we could not get the 2.5 inch model 19.

I do not recall them ever boring out a model 14. I do remember the discussion because I think the model 14 has a shorter cylinder and would not fit the 158 grain bullets in 357. Anybody actually have experience with the older pin barrel model 14s and the longer ammo?

Personally, I know there was different heat treatments over time. I am not comfortable firing a 50-60 year old gun sold as a 38 Special, with 357 mag ammo.

This discussion has come up with respect to the 38 Super. The 38 Super with moon clips is fast for competition, but must be loaded hot to reach power factor requirements. Many guns are modified for this, but they made lots of concerns about the model 14 at the 38 Super pressure ratings.

I would like to hear from people who have fired the 357 and 38 Super in these modified model 14s and model 10s, not just people speculating.

 

[BillyKframe]

Page 256 Of the Standard Catalog #5 under Variations says: "Premium for 4" barrel 14-3s."

 

[JP@AK]

This discussion got me to thinking about the Model 10-6 units that S&W produced for the NYSP, chambered for the .357 Magnum. I took one out of the safe along with a standard .38 Special Model 10-5.

The .357 10-6 has a cylinder that is 1/16" longer than the cylinder in the 10-5. Keeping in mind that the cylinder for the 10-6 is counterbored, I conclude that a standard-length cylinder is certainly long enough to accommodate the .357 Magnum cartridge, assuming the interior dimensions are adjusted to allow it. I have no idea whether the .357 cylinder received a different heat treatment on the converted 10-6 units.

I don't know what point this proves, but it is interesting.

 

[Engine49guy]

This discussion got me to thinking about the Model 10-6 units that S&W produced for the NYSP, chambered for the .357 Magnum. I took one out of the safe along with a standard .38 Special Model 10-5.

The .357 10-6 has a cylinder that is 1/16" longer than the cylinder in the 10-5. Keeping in mind that the cylinder for the 10-6 is counterbored, I conclude that a standard-length cylinder is certainly long enough to accommodate the .357 Magnum cartridge, assuming the interior dimensions are adjusted to allow it. I have no idea whether the .357 cylinder received a different heat treatment on the converted 10-6 units.

I don't know what point this proves, but it is interesting.

It gets even more interesting when you measure a Model 12 cylinder and a Model 19-5 cylinder and compare them to all the above .
Some are longer at the front, some are longer at the rear.

 

[Riposte1]

Grandpa passed and I got his model 14-3. It was stored with a box of .38 special ammo and a little bag with 6 rounds of .357 magnum, with a note that said "these are the good ones" signed by someone I don't recognize.

Now Grandpa was in law enforcement and he told me before he passed that he cleaned his gun after every time it was fired. So I'm pretty sure he knew enough to not fire .357's out of his .38 revolver.

So I always just assumed that maybe he had a buddy that said, "bro, I shoot .357 out of my 38 revolver all the time and it works great." And this buddy left him 6 rounds with the note, and my Grandpa kept them but never fired them.

However, I just saw another thread on here where someone found a model 14-3 that has been modified to take .357 magnum. So now I'm wondering if Grandpa's gun is like that.

What do I need to look for to see if this gun has been modified and can safely shoot 357?

It wasn't uncommon for cops to bore out .38 chambers, even in J-frames so it could take a .357. Not because they wanted to use the hotter load but in case they ran out of ammo and their partner carried .357 ammo.

It is not a practice I would reccomend but you run into them from time to time. I ran into a nickeled Victory model once that had been cut to 2" and refinished - it would accept .357 (so whoever did the work likely rechambered it).

Riposte

 

[S&W Fan]

Soooo a month later and still waiting to see if the op confirmed lately that the magnum ammo fits...or did I miss something? Regardless I like the heavy profile barrel, very cool.

 

[rwsmith]

I have stuck model 19 cylinders in several K frames that were orginally 38s and never had a problem.

Yes, but the model 19 was made to shoot (some) .357, What that tells you is that the .38 FRAME holds up under .357 fire. The OP has a .38 cylinder. Even if gun didn't fail catastophically, it can't be good for it..