I just got mine and tried it out today, had some bounceback. The guy in the next lane thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. He didn't wear my brass, and he loved it.

I shoot at a friend's home range, and I like shooting there so I police up my brass after every session. This deflector will make clean up a much easier and more pleasant task, especially if I can get the brass to fall into an old cooler, or box I build.

From my POV this add on is quite a good investment for shooters who collect brass, or who want to be courteous to their fellow shooters.

I will be ordering one of these very soon.

Noticed wear on a pretty consistent spot. Moved it back 1 rail and lined it with adhesive foam. Will report once I test the changes.

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I couldn't get rid of the bounceback, I just had to take it off.

I have changed the angle, relative to the lower, on a couple of deflectors but it has been raining and I have not had a chance to get to the range to see what the results are.

On one I bent the rear out about 1/8" and the other bent the bottom out a little less. I am still thinking that the deflector being exactly parallel to the lower, both horizontally and vertically, is the problem. My ghetto version has the deflector at a 45 degree angle (vertically) to the lower and there is no problem with bounce back. I think the fact that the deflector itself is a length of soft rail ladder contributes to the lack of bounce back, as well.

Went to the range yesterday, I took mounted the original brass deflector to the mounting base, which was 1 rail notch forward because the new deflector is longer. Before shooting, I bent the aft end of the deflector outboard a small amount (pulled it away from the rifle).

Ran through 140 rounds of Federal Champion 36g CPHP, and only 1 shell casing bounced back into the chamber. The first 100 rounds were slow fire, and the last 40 I fired at a fairly fast rate.

I also believe that because the deflector is exactly parallel to the lower, it causes the bounce-back into my chamber. Others may have a different result, but that one small change worked for me.

Grabbed some washers from storage, and will try them between the mounting base and both deflectors (long and short). Afterwards, I will post my results here. Hopefully I can go tomorrow morning.

Thanks to everyone here for all the advice, and the brainstorming. Especially to SimpleWeaponsSolutions! He's been awesome! :-)

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Semper Fi

I do have similar plans to alter angles. Will report when I shoot again.

Mine is still parallel to the lower, I just angled the aft end away from the rifle. No idea of how far, but just a little as it was mounted, and I did not want to damage anything by applying too much force.

That did make a tremendous difference though.

Before... 8 bounce backs in 25 rounds
Yesterday... 1 bounce back in 140 rounds

Maybe tilting the deflector a little is the next step. I'm thinking that if the vertical surface angles down a little, that the brass will bounce downward instead of horizontal. (hope that makes sense)

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Semper Fi

This is what I like about this forum. Guy comes up with a good idea and brings it to market. A few problems pop up and forum members are trouble shooting it to made it better.

BRAVO folks!!!

I thought about trying to bend mine outward too, but would need for SWS to confirm that I could still return it if that doesn't work.

I will not be returning mine. I'll just keep experimenting with it until it works. I consider it a challenge. Besides, if I fail to think of something, there are enough people here to help with ideas!

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Semper Fi

Just bend it back ...

I have no problem with accepting a return on it, even if you take it to the range and use it as a target to take out your frustrations on it. If you would like I still have a handful of cosmetic blemished shields that I can send you to mess around with. If you would like a couple of them, send me a pm with a ship to address.

If anyone scratches, breaks, mangles, etc their brass deflector I will still accept a return on it or send replacement parts. Just send me a pm or email me [email protected]

I notice that the in-the-white deflectors you sent me are both slightly longer and thicker than the production version.

They should be all around the same thickness. There may be slight variations as the shields are cut with a waterjet from a large sheet of aluminum.

After the first run of brass deflectors I increased the length a little bit.

I finally got the chance to test out my deflector. Overall, it worked fine. I had a few stove pipes where the ejected casing bounced backed into the chamber. It was more prevalent during double taps. Nothing new from what has already been said. I believe I had one of the first production runs.

The folks at Simple Weapons Solutions were nice enough to send me a brass deflector to test with some sub-sonic ammunition. My review of the rifle enhancement follows.

This test was conducted at a friend’s ranch on a private range. So we both had opportunity to act as shooter and observer for the duration of the test, with no other distractions.

The range of ammunition was all in the 1,000 to 1,080 fps range, well under the speed of sound. The stages of fire included slow and rapid fire segments, with the breech of the rifle in various positions relative to the horizon.

I normally shoot the gun suppressed, but removed it to make the test more relevant.

In a nutshell, here are the results.



Synopsis of Results

RC = Round Count
FTF = Failure to Feed
FTFIRE = Failure to Fire
STOVE = Brass kicking back into chamber, post ejection

The number of stovepipe failures is statistically insignificant. I honestly expected more problems with the short cases from the Aguila SSS, due to their violent ejection behavior, but oddly enough did not see that in the testing.

As you can see from the table, the only significant number is in the FTFIRE column. I believe this is due to using an ALG/ACT trigger and hammer with the standard S&W blue hammer spring. I did not have this problem prior to the installation of the ACT trigger, and believe my S&W armorer gave me some not so great advice to use the factory hammer spring. I will install the ALG hammer spring when I clean the gun.

Observations

We both acted as observers, and saw the same behavior in the operation of the rifle.

I installed the deflector on the trailing edge of the rail. That is to say, I used three sections of rail so the entire SWS mount was seated on the forearm. In this mounting position, we both saw numerous instances of the brass bouncing out of the space between the rear edge of the deflector and the upper receiver deflector post.

This issue was solved by moving the install point on the rail one notch closer to the receiver. In our humble opinion, if we were the designer of the deflector, it would make sense to extend the length about another ¼ inch rearward to cover the gap. This would provide a more elegant mounting solution than the mount overhanging the rear end of the forearm. See the arrows in the following photo.



Observing the angles of the brass as it was ejected from the gun; we felt it might also make sense to extend the top section of the deflector (before the downward bend begins) by another ¼ inch or so. Bowing out the main body of the deflector away from the mount might accomplish the same thing. We felt this might lessen the amount of general “rattle around” we saw prior to the case being forced downward by gravity.



The other thing we noticed was the tendency of some of the cases to catch on the cutouts prior to drop. It appeared as if the case would occasionally catch on one of the edges of the cutouts and change its angle of motion. This might contribute to an occasional stovepipe. The best remedy for this would probably be to radius the inside edges of the cutouts when they are being cut on the mill. A rounded inner edge would eliminate what we saw.

We both thought it was a well engineered and well made device. It certainly more than lives up to what we feel is a nice range enhancement to eliminate spiting brass at the next shooter down the line.

Two thumbs up!

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Uva Uvam Vivendo Varia Fit

Original deflector, first generation - 0.120
Replacements - 0.125

It's surprising that the .005 is actually noticeable.

I am hoping to get back to the range Tuesday afternoon.

DirtDart,

A little off topic, but what model EoTech is that, XPS or EXPS. Also, why do you have it on a riser?

I am looking for one, and would like an absolute co-witness with the Magpul BUIS.

Thanks for all of the testing and observation. And thanks for the future information.

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Semper Fi

It is an XPS2-0. It is on the riser to set it up for lower 1/3 co-witness with the Magpul BUIS.

As you are probably aware, the EXPS series is already elevated for lower 1/3.

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Uva Uvam Vivendo Varia Fit

I thought the XPS would absolute co-witness with the Magpul sights. Just trying to make sure before spending that much!

Thanks!

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Semper Fi

You are correct. I tried it for a bit set up for absolute, but decided to change it to match my other AR's.

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Uva Uvam Vivendo Varia Fit

That is a fantastic range report Dirt Dart! I greatly appreciate you taking the time to test this out.

I have been getting some good feedback from others who are helping out with the troubleshooting and I believe the fix will be to bend out the shield away from the upper 1\ and to close off the last 2-3 windows.

To those of you helping out with the testing, if you would take one of the blem shields I sent and bend it out 1\ and close off the last 2-3 windows (tape should work) and let me know how that works out.

Once I have a little bit more feedback I will have prototypes made up and sent out for final testing.

When this issue has been resolved anyone with the current shield design will receive the updated shield at no cost.

I still haven't made it to the range, for a variety of reasons. I am going tomorrow, rain or shine, unless it's a gully washer.

Do you mean to bend it out from the rear? I've already done that, but haven't taped it. I'll do that, too.

I also have one bent out from the bottom. I'll try both.

Now or later, I am ready for one!

I wonder if having the slots at 45° would help reduce bounce backs, or using holes rather than slots?

When others shoot my 15-22 with the shield they seem to have a lot of stovepipes, like every 2 or 3 rounds and with it removed the problem goes away. It seems to function more reliably for me, and the benefits certainly out weight the odd jam but I am interested to see a new and improved version that eliminated these issues.

When you say last few slots, you mean the ones closest to the picatiny mount? Thats where I see the wear on mine.

Pershing

From my 400 rounds, the most noticeable marking of the deflector occurred around the last three trailing slots (farthest away from the mount).

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Uva Uvam Vivendo Varia Fit

I hope I'm not being a jerk, but I don't want ANY jams to occur because of any addition to my rifle. I have the deflector & with the 1st magazine, I got 3-4 jams. No big deal and I just took it off. I wish no disrespect & have not complained & am glad to see SWS working on correcting the problem. However for me to put one back on, it has to perform flawlessly.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

Same here ... the last inch has the most anodizing removed from case impact.

That's what we are trying to get it to do, Jim.

And I appreciate all your efforts, as I know SWS does.

My only point is I don't want it better... but flawless. If that is expecting too much, I'm not worried and will refuse any offer of a refund. I appreciate the American spirit demonstrated by folks like SWS, Tacticool22, and others. I likewise am greatly impressed with the attitude of the members here. No one is being ugly. All are supportive.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

I looked at my pic and you guys are right. Mine seems right on slot #3 from last to first.

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I finally made it to the range for a couple of hundred rounds this afternoon. I put a hundred rounds through the rifle for each of the modified deflectors.

The first photo shows the deflector bent out in the horizontal plane. There was one stovepipe at 15 rounds and the remaining 85 rounds ejected just fine. One downside, is that the rounds were ejecting to the rear, rather than downward, through the gap between the deflector and the lower, occasionally hitting my arm. To me, this defeats the purpose of the deflector.

The second photo shows the inside of my unmodified deflector. As you can seen there is considerable wear along the last third of the length.

The third photo shows the deflector bent away from the lower in a vertical plane. In 100 rounds there was one stovepipe at 18 rounds. The remainder of the rounds ejected with no problem. I wish I had bent the bottom out a little more. Maybe next time.

I continue with my theory that the best solution is to increase the vertical angle between the lower and the deflector. This keeps the cases dropping downward. I will bend that deflector some more and try it again.

It sure does. I think that is worse than without the deflector.

For those thinking of bending your 1st generation deflectors ... don't!

The tongue on them is shorter than the one on the longer, 2nd gen deflectors and trying to bend them will result in a fracture right across the innermost screw hole.

I learned the hard way.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I am working on a complete redesign for the brass deflector.

Here is one of the newer designs I have been working on. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I will have handful of prototypes to send out for final eval.

That looks interesting.

Went to the range again today, and had numerous stovepipes with both the modified deflectors when doing aimed fire at a moderate pace - about one every 12 to 15 rounds. Rapid fire was one every other magazine. When I took it off, there were no stovepipes in 300 rounds. We fired about 600 rounds total. As in the last range session, the deflector flared out at the rear channeled cases out the rear and not downward, defeating the intended purpose.

We are going back out tomorrow with my original 45 degree rail and section of rail ladder.

When they are available, I will buy one! Just let me know when, and how much.

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Semper Fi

I can evaluate the hell out of one of those if you'd like. I'll be buying one for sure if they work 100%. I lost the one I made myself. It was ugly, but my forearm misses it.

I put some scotch tape on the last 3 slots on mine, did not bend it out and went from having stove pipes every 4-5 shots to none, even when rapidly firing using the 50 round drum, except once in a while on the last shot, when the bolt was being held open. Later on though, the tape wore out on the 2nd slot to the end, and ended up back with the stove pipe after a few shots.

Hmmm, maybe I'll fill mine with JB weld or epoxy until the new one is available. I also found the stoppages are reduced when the aft holes are covered.

Yeah, remember how I wasn't having the bounce-back issue? Well, that time has gone. I got 7 bounce-backs out of 100 rds last night. Looks like my luck in this has run out, lol.

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M&P40c/15-22/SD9VE/Mossy500

Just a thought...if you wanted to keep the ribs the entire length, wonder how it would work if the slots were milled at an angle (back)??? That way the shell would have no "edge" to catch.

Or maybe instead of vertical slots, do holes or horizontal ones.

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M&P40c/15-22/SD9VE/Mossy500

What is the purpose of the slots? Why have them anyway? I would think without them, it would be more like what the Major has made for himself... and works.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

There are slots in my DIY version - the slots in the rail ladder.

FWIW, the slots are necessary in the forward portion so one can see into the open chamber.

I still think the problem is the deflector to lower angle ... it needs to be 45 degrees.

Looks promising!

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Uva Uvam Vivendo Varia Fit

Would a solid piece with a a quick slide open design work better? I also agree horizontal slots or angled holes might work too.

Home from the range ...

300 rounds with the 45 degree rail and ladder section - zero stovepipes. That pretty much settles the issue for me.