I realize these two excellent instructors have left Mag Pul. However, if anyone has watched their handgun video - "Dynamic Handgun," you will see them shooting S&W M&P's. I am wondering if they still use the M&P. Travis Haley's new and really good handgun video, made by Panteao Productions, has him running a Glock. He says he runs a Glock.
I know Nighthawk says they use their guns in their 1911 class. However, I have seen nothing further on them using S&W M&P's. Anyone know anything about whether or not they still use the M&P?

I've seen a few pictures of them (you can be a fan of both of them on FB) and it seems that they run all sorts of weapons. It seems Costa is a huge 1911 fan and Haley seems to like Glock but I'd say they run just about everything.

That video series is the reason I shoot M&Ps now...I was interested when I first saw the video and then started researching them and one thing lead to another and now I am officially hooked on M&P autos...I have 4 and plan on having more!

I will say that there was probably some great marketing with Magpul, Costa and Haley since Smith had their M&P15's decked out in Magpul gear. It was a good partnership from the get-go and it resulted in them getting the M&P9's in their hands for the videos but I have seen pics of them shooting them after they left.

Those videos also caused me to look at the M&P's. I picked up a spec op M&P and was hooked ( Chris Costa shot the identical pistol in the video). I like them better than my Glocks and have quite a few now. I am a die hard 1911 fan; however, I really like the M&P. I am hoping it does well and proves to be a tough reliable pistol. I would love to see Smith recapture some market lost to Glock.
I went through a one day AK course with Travis Haley recently. Everything else he is teaching is filled. Chris Costa also teaches here; but his courses fill up early.

I get a bit of a hard time from some buddies because I reference a lot of their philosophy but I think a lot of what they teach is sound.

I think Smith hit one out of the park with the M&P and it seems to do something that no Glock clone could do and that's to offer something different but equally tough, simple and reliable for less money.

Hope so cause I really like the ergonomics of the M&P better than any striker pistol I have picked up. Even the new FN's.
It feels right to me and the mag release is really good.
I know Chris Costa is a big fan of the 1911 cause Nighthawk has one of their custom 1911's named the Costa and supposedly drawn to his specs.
Let's hope the Smith proves as durable and reliable as the Glock!

I took my M&P9 Pro to a Combat Focus Shooting pistol course last year. It was mid-August and incredibly hot. My little M&P was the only non-Glock there and it chugged out 1200 plus rounds over 2 days without a cleaning and without a hiccup. I shoot it in IDPA when I'm not shooting my M&P45 so its official round-count is upwards of 2,000 right now and my black M&P45 is fast approaching 1,000 in just a few short months...it was used, but barely, when I traded for it so I've probably put the majority of rounds through it. So far so good!

I have two M&P 9mm. Not too long ago I went through a three day advanced course with a friend. He had put a 9mm barrel in his 357 Glock and planned on shooting it. The gun kept jamming on him and we did not know if it was the gun are the reloads. So I loaned one of the M&P's with 1,000 rounds of blazer. I told him to forget his reloads and shoot the blazer. I shot the other M&P. Both went through the course without a hiccup. I have since shot the one I was shooting ( a spec op M&P) a lot more. It has about 2,000 rounds through it without any problems.

Awesome! I remember when I first started shooting years ago and 1,000 rounds through a gun sounded like a LOT...now 1,000 rounds means it is just getting broken in!

I'm actually taking my 2 newest M&Ps to the range today for some after work fun! My M&P9c and my new M&P45 FDE. The 9c is just such a great shooter and I may even like it a touch better than my 9 Pro. The 9c has the thumb safety, which originally I didn't think much of, but now 3 of the 4 M&Ps I own have them and I think I want to pick up a full-size 9 with the thumb safety since nearly every pistol I own now has them! LOL

Only my Glock 21 has more rounds through it, but every one of my Smiths has shot every bullet shape and weight and never had a problem. Inittially my M&P45 had a terrible feed issue but it was due to a bur on the bottom of the extractor. it would bite into the case rim and not allow the round to slide completely under and it would jam up. That was obviously the reason the guy traded it to me; I'm sure he was glad to be rid of it and he didn't tell me the gun had problems...imagine that. But about 5 minutes and some 400 grit sandpaper and that big 45 is now my favorite carry, competition, range gun out of all that I own.

Some guns don't run reliably with reloads, some don't run reliably with conversion barrels, and some don't run well with reloads and conversion barrels.

I read an article not long ago written by a SWAT cop on the S&W M&P 45. Seems he dropped it off the top of the SWAT van and otherwise subjected the pistol to abuse testing it. Last he fired 5.000 rounds through the pistol without cleaning it. It functioned fine.
I have two M&P 45s; but I shoot them very little preferring my 9mm Spec Op. Much more economical and easier to handle.
My Glocks are taking a back seat to the Smith because they give me Glock knuckle. Yesterday I dremel tooled them hoping to cure this. We will see.

Was it a 4th Gen?

I do not believe it was either the reloads or the the barrel. A friend of mine, who is a Glock fanatic, changed out a part in the Glock so it would run reliably. I think he changed the ejector to a 9mm ejector because it orginally had a 40 ejector in the pistol, which would not work with the 9mm cartridge. It still does not run 100 % but does run much better. He is now able to switch barrels without any trouble.

Best as my friend can remember it was a Gen 3.

Costa was/is running a M&P45c, worked over by Doug at ATEi (Apex, RMR) or often a NH1911. He now runs his signature NH Costa models that were recently introduced. Haley seems to be running Glock now and really pushes his Skimmer Glock trigger.

Thanks Hokie. I always thought Costa was running a spec op 9mm.

What is ATE? What is RMR? Yup I have seen the Costa NH.

Talked to Costa a bit at SHOT, in the Nighthawk booth. He said 1911s were his favorite platform and he liked Nighthawks the best. Might have at least partially been where was standing right then...

The latest issue of Recoil magazine has an interview with Travis Haley. It shows his EDC gear, which includes a G17. Likely he is running mostly Glocks these days.

Tommato

It seems a while ago they were both using and promoting the M&P's heavily, now not so much. I wonder if they encountered something that made them make the switch to something else, or if they went to where the money is. I don't know, they're world class trainers but I'm not going base my decisions on what to carry just because certain trainers are partial to certain brands.

Glock, SIG, M&P, 1911, Beretta, etc are all carried and promoted by various trainers out there so rest easy if one of them switched platforms, yours is still probably the right decision for you.

Costa and Haley have a huge following, if they started using Hi Points and Bryco-Jennings in their classes you can bet some would rush out and buy them too, though that scenario is highly unlikely.

ATEi
http://www.ateiguns.com/

RMR
Trijicon RMR™

You are 100 % wrong. It was a standard mp pro 9mm. How do I know - well I took the handgun 101 class with Chris down in myakka this past fall. Chris shoots - and always has shot - an MP 9mm. We talked about the gun in class. When that video was made the gun had over 100,000 rounds through it, two replacement barrels. He shoots warren tactical sights on it. I shot the same gun in class but had big dot sights on mine - Chris had never shot big dots before and for a few drills we actually swapped guns. If you are going to try to be a fanboy - at least be correct.

Ericgt50,
You are a little blunt for someone making their fisrt post.
I admit I have never met Chris Costa or taken any of his classes.
However, I do know there is a video on the Internet from November 2011 of him showing his modified 9c with a Trijicon RMR Red Dot sight.
He also talks about his previous 9c setup with the RMR sight had the sight further to the rear. So in the Fall of 2011 he did have and shoot a 9c with an RMR sight.
Maybe he bought all this right after your class. Who knows and cares?

__________________
Ted
Les Baer , Wilson CQB

Costa mainly used an STI Tactical 4.15 9mm in the class I took in July. Doug from ATEi brought down the Costa M&P prototype on the 3rd day, and Costa also used a G19 on the 3rd day.

He wasn't using his NH because of injury to his elbow.

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After reading all the posts about "what Costa runs" . . . seems to me he runs smart, and is making more money all the time

WWCD? What Would Costa Do?

Who cares?

I like the Magpul videos and think he and Haley are good dudes, but if Costa has McDonald's for lunch, that doesn't make me crave a Big Mac.....

Wendy's, not McDonald's. You can see Wendy's in the video credits.
The Frosty's are pretty damn good. LOL

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In an interview Chris Costa said the only reason they were running M&P's in their Magpul video was because S&W approached them and offered up the pistols for use while they filmed. Afterwards Haley went back to his Glock & 1911's. Costa, on the otherhand, had his modified heavily by ATEi and even came out with the first aftermarket mod, the Catalyst extended mag release button. Now ATEi just offered (and sold out) a modified M&P9 FS and Pro made to Costa's exact specifications. Think of what Nighthawk did with their 1911 Costa edition.

Interestingly, Costa also spoke about trigger jobs for the M&P and although he is aware of Apex Tactical he said he prefers the stock trigger w/ a Burwell type job.

This isn't to say the M&P isn't a great gun, btw. I own a 9 FS and love it so much I put another $170 in it w/ an Apex Tactical trigger. Just repeating what was said. I think it's very telling that at least one of them liked the gun enough to keep pushing it, making it better. Which is what most of us here did, and many others that I've spoken to.

you said they were using stock m&p pro's, but they both ran thumb safeties - are thumb safeties stock on pro models?

Kyle Lamb is a good instructor and has written good books. He too is an M&P fanboy and also uses GLOCKs.

I built my 2nd AR15 almost exactly like what he had in his book. Sold it to fund another purchase. Then I picked up my VTAC M&P15 afterwards as I missed my KL inspired AR so much.

Lots of good info. Copy-cat tactics can be an expensive mistake but following through with solid information is priceless.

Both Costa and Haley use M&Ps AND Glocks as well as 1911s. I know Costa has said many times he prefers the M&P over Glock but many students run Glocks and he wants to stay proficient... Not sure which Haley prefers but at the end of the day they're both great platforms despite some rare individual quirks.

__________________
unrepentant M&P fanboy

Personally, I couldn't tell you what particular pistol (or pistols) may be used by any instructor at any given moment.

Some makes/models may be used when an instructor may be supported by a major maker, or they may simply use what their students at any particular class are using (or required to use), and some may even have one, or more, "favorites" they rotate through using at one time or another.

As an instructor I need to be able to teach/train folks in using 1911's, TDA's (traditional double action, also known as DA/SA), some of the assorted DAO-ish variants ... and even DA/DAO revolvers.

Over the years I've often taken to choosing something from my safe that I know will be similar to what's being used by the folks with whom I'm working (as an instructor), or a similar issued weapon, or I'll simply use a handy weapon being used/carried by one of the people with whom I'm working.

I've often thought that far too much is made of whatever make/model/caliber some trainer may be using - and maybe distracting from the important aspects of the class content, to some degree.

Of course, some folks choose their apparel because it represents some sports team or other, or promotes their favorite brand of whatever, so I suppose it's inevitable that some gun enthusiasts want to emulate their favorite sport shooters & instructors by getting the same make/model/caliber of gun ...

At the end of the day it's safe handling & manipulation, and consistently controlled & accurate hits on the intended threat target(s).

Brand name of the particular gun? It's just a bullet-launcher.

Pick something of good quality made by one or another of the major makers, preferably made by one of them who have acquired a lot of experience in providing service weapons to LE/Gov users, and who offers good warranty support ... and even pick something in a nice color, if that floats your boat ... and then train, practice, train, practice & so on.

In instructor & instructor update classes, the attention of the instructors is usually focused on the targets, not the particular guns used to make good hits on the targets. They all work in the hands of a skilled user.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Here is a link where Costa talks about his custom M&P.
Chris Costa talks about his Custom M&P - YouTube

All the different instructors run what they prefer or what works for them. I am sure they would all tell you to find a platform you like and train train train with it.
Personally I don't like the Glock. I have owned a few over the years and find the ergos of the M&P work much better for me. Does not make the Glock a bad pistol though.
I used to compete with 1911's. Years ago I owned a Night Hawk back when you could buy them for under $2000.00. It was the most accurate pistol I have ever shot. Had to sell it to fund a divorce. I did not cary it for personal protection though. It was far to big and heavy to CCW every day. At that time I did carry a G23 daily. That was before I discovered the M&P.

I know Larry Vickers is fond of Glock, 1911, and he ran a Walther PPQ for a bit. (Not sure if he still is) he spoke highly of it. We have one and it is a great pistol other than the bore axis being a bit high. Trigger is great out of the box and it is accurate.

James Yager is a big Glock fan. He is very opinionated though and can rub people the wrong way. But I know his school is solid and many folks have benefited from his training.

Buy what fells good to YOU and train.

I think you will find they use whatever suits them that they like. They are at a level where as long as the tool is good, it doesn't matter which on.

That Magpul video is good, but there is some nonsense in there - some very solid stuff as well. I'm not a fan of Costa so much, the man is a bit flashy for me and seems to have developed a tactical ego.

Doing this kind of nonsense ego trip really diminishes his legitimacy for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LsVWYS0mp4

Take it for what it is, advertising for his business. Mainly the part of his business that deals with tactical training.

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__________________
Later,
Hock

Hmmm. Sure. I get that. Probably also as an example so he can get into action movies as advisor/co-ordinator.

If it's to advertise his tactical business... I'm put off by the lone ranger be a hero nonsense.

I agree Costa Uses a M&P 9. Says he prefers it over other calibers due to recoil mitigation. I don't think Costa has a ego. He's really good and is funny as any comedian you'll meet.