Four Possibilities...What say you?

Sorry for the long post, but there are a lot of factors to consider when making a decision...

I've been contemplating a choice of four different models lately, and kind of going in circles over the final decision.

I've been considering the Taurus Millennium Pro, the M&P Shield, The Taurus 740, and the M&P40C, all in .40S&W.

I am trying to choose the best handgun for self defense, primarily something carried in the center console of the car, and not necessarily something that I will be taking with me for concealed carry, although that would be desirable.

With respect to concealed carry, I currently just pocket a Keltec P3AT, .380, or sometimes a Keltec PF9, and leave it at that. I consider the other models to be too big for comfortable concealed carry, and having carried firearms professionally for many years, light weight comfort is paramount in my book.

I do own a full size M&P9 Limited Edition Talo with Nitrided Slide. I am absolutely satisfied with the M&P9 Full Size, and can shoot it quite well against other comparable models, including Glock, Sig, H&K, Springfield Armory, Beretta, etc...

But, with respect to my experience with the compact version of the Full Size M&P9 in .40 S&W, which is the M&P40C, my experience has been less than satisfying so far.

I currently own the Taurus Millennium Pro, and carry it in the car in the center console. I also own a S&W M&P40C, and frankly, I haven’t completed decided to keep the M&P40C for reasons I will reveal later. I consider these pistols comparable with respect to size. And, I consider the Taurus 740 and M&P Shield as comparable with respect to their relative size and magazine capacity.

I have it narrowed down in my mind to two models right now, either a Taurus Millenium Pro, or the S&W Shield.

Application:
Good Center Console Car Carry, something that does not break the bank, but something that is totally dependable all the time. Leaving it in the center console, through all kinds of weather, humidity, etc…it must be durable, and easily able to withstand the temperature and humidity changes in the Midwestern part of the United States. Price is a consideration, because it's not going to be babied. Who wants to leave an H&K out in the protected elements?

Now, those that are concerned that it's being left in my car, do not fret. It is removed from the center console under circumstances where the car is not being garaged or totally and completely secure, most of the time.

I like so many things about the Taurus Millennium Pro, but I have had problems with it that have required me to make some minor “adjustments.” I've experienced the common problem of hitting the magazine release button and inadvertently releasing the magazine during firing sequences. I’ve also dealt with the accuracy of the Straight Eight sights.

These are very common issues that Millennium Pro owners endure. But, generally, the Millennium Pro is a well made, reliable firearm, and offers probably the most comfortable grip I have ever experienced on a semi-automatic handgun, bar none. I have never experienced a failure to fire, or a ejection problem in over 800 rounds of fire with the Taurus, nor have I noticed any appreciable wear upon the mechanism.

But, due to the issues I’ve experienced with the Taurus, I've been considering the Shield to replace my Millennium Pro, as well as very possibly getting rid of my M&P40C.

Actually, I have only put about (75) rounds through the M&P40C. It is, for all intents and purposes, a brand new firearm. On my first trip to the range, I experienced (5) incidents of a dead trigger condition out of a total of (75) rounds. The hammer apparently never cocked from the previous round, and the trigger was dead when I attempted to fire the next round in the magazine. I noticed that if I move the slide back about 1/8” I could sometimes cock the hammer, and I was sometimes able to subsequently fire the round.

The "Dead Trigger" condition may indicate that the sear is not resetting, and can't grab the striker. Squeezing the trigger then results in nothing happening.

I heard that some Police Departments reported this same problem on large quantities of departmental issue firearms, that Smith & Wesson is aware of this problem, and that they have a remedy available for it.

I heard that a larger plunger, a heavier duty spring under the sear, and improvements to sear block tolerances are available from Smith & Wesson to correct this condition. If not from S&W under warranty, then I know these fixes are available from Apex.

But, one shouldn’t have to spend a dime on a brand new firearm, unless you want to enhance an already acceptable 6# trigger pull or improve the firearm for competition shooting or something.

I also noticed several instances of a failure to fire on my first time out with the M&P40C. On several occasions of failing to fire, I noticed there was no evidence of a primer strike on the primer. But, on a few occasions I did notice shallow dimples on the primer, indicating that the firing pin must have struck the primer, but without sufficient force to fire the round.

So, after only (75) rounds, and only one time to the range, the S&W M&P40C is back at the factory this very moment being evaluated.

I, and many others, have had problems with the Taurus with respect to accidentally hitting the magazine release, which made me doubt its reliability in a fire fight, which is really the only reason I would even consider replacing it with the Shield or the M&P40C.

Having adjusted the Straight Eight Sights in their respective dovetails, I am relatively accurate with the Straight Eights on the Taurus, usually keeping all rounds within about the size of your palm from about 10-15 yards, about the furthest you should be even remotely contemplating a fire fight. Were I merely going to the range with it for fun, I would be otherwise relatively satisfied.

I really like the ergonomic feel of the Taurus very much, and the various features on it, enough that I decided to reverse the Mag Release to the other side of the frame, making it a left handed firearm. By doing so, the inadvertent magazine release problem was completely solved because the grip position is completely changed.

I simply release the mag with my middle finger on my right hand, versus using my right thumb...easy enough really. It only takes a nano second of delay if caught off guard and failing to remember the new location of the mag release, which I have yet to forget.

I figure that if you're releasing the magazine for a reload, and you're in a fire fight, you must be in one heck of a fire fight, since you already emptied the magazine at the aggressor, and you are reloading another ten rounds of .40S&W, a very potent round indeed.

I figured that if, in a fire fight, I was caught off guard by the new position of the mag release, the miniscule delay caused by being caught off guard by it's new position would still allow plenty of time to have gripped the second magazine from the belt for reload as the spent mag falls to the ground.

But, of course, if one practices sufficiently with any handgun, everything, including the position of the mag release, is second nature. So, in changing the position of the mag release to the right side of the frame, my only apprehension might be that the positioning of the mag release is different from the other handguns that I routinely shoot for recreation.

With respect to the Taurus Millennium Pro Sights, if you're used to three dot sights, and shoot with a three dot sight picture, chances are you'll be shooting low and the left by 6-8 inches if you're a right handed shooter using Straight Eight sights, unless you’re aware of the proper way to sight Straight Eights. They do take some getting used to, but once you're used to them, they work fine.

But, I must admit that I prefer the familiarity of the three dot system to the Straight Eight sights, and because I enjoy recreationally shooting the Taurus as well, I’ve replaced the Heine Straight Eight Sights with Williams Fiber Optic Adjustable sights.

I like the Williams sights a lot, and adjusted them to the extent that I tightened up my groupings to about half a palm size, from 10-15 yards. I can pick up on the Williams Sights visually better than the white three dot sights on the Shield, which are exceptionally easy to pick up on.

I recommend investing in the Williams adjustable sights. But, if you're going to keep the Straight Eights on the Taurus, you may find that Taurus' quality control is a little lacking. With respect to the factory Straight Eights, the shooter may have to tweak the sights at the range to ensure the pistol is accurate before making an overall judgment about the accuracy and applicability of Straight Eight Sights on a pistol intended primarily for self defense distances, 10-15 yards max.

Sights not being properly set from the factory may reflect negatively on Taurus' quality control. But, I have just as much to complain about with respect to S&W having quality control issues as I do Taurus, except a different issue involving dead trigger issues with the S&W M&P40C's, and it was brand new, right out of the box.

The Shield has regular three dot sights, and while the sights are not night sights, the white dots they use are really bright and vivid when you sight in, brighter and more vivid than I’ve noticed on many other models.

The Shield seems to have a good ergonomic feel to it. But, the magazine capacity is only (7) rounds, quite a bit less than the Taurus Millennium Pro, which has a (10) round magazine capacity.

With respect to the Shield, when you grip it, the mag release is forward of where your thumb rests, so it doesn't appear there would be any problem with inadvertent magazine releases in my case. And, in my limited experience with the M&P40C, there were no issues with inadvertent magazine releases over the course of (75) rounds fired.

The M&P Shield has a pretty affordable price, about the same as the Millennium Pro from Taurus. The Shield has a Black Melonite, 68 HRc finish, so it should be pretty durable. The Taurus Millennium Pro has a Stainless Steel Slide…So, durability between the two models is about equal. They only offer the Shield in a Black finish right now. The M&P40C is literally $100 more than the Taurus and/or the Shield, and durability is probably about the same between all three models, the M&P40C having a Melonite hard finish.

Interestingly, Taurus has a line of slim pistols available too, the PT740, in 40S&W. The PT740 only has a 6+1 magazine capacity, but I’ve heard that an optional 7+1 magazine is available. I’m not too fond of the look of the PT740, but I haven’t had a lot of direct experience with it other than to hold it in my hand. It does have standard three dot sights, which eliminates any issue you might have were it supplied with Straight Eights. But, I’ve kind of put it as a second choice, something that could double as actual concealed carry and a good console gun.

In my opinion, the M&P Shield has a better look (shape) than the Taurus PT740, and in comparing them ergonomically, I think the M&P Shield is probably more comfortable to shoot, maybe a little wider than the Taurus PT740 model.

The Taurus PT740 magazine well is shorter than the M&P Shield, and it gives you less to grab onto as you're holding it. I notice with the Taurus 740, that your little finger hangs off the bottom of the magazine well. Whereas, the M&P Shield supports all your fingers when you grip it. That added round in the magazine extends the well of the magazine sufficiently so as to also support your little finger when gripping the M&P Shield.

I haven't decided whether I would have any interest in actually going to the M&P Shield over the Millennium Pro, but it's an interesting model due to it's slim size, and it's ergonomic shape. I like the duality of concealed carry and console gun, and the short magazine well on the Taurus PT740 is a serious detractor compared to the Shield.

The Shield seems like it could be a good candidate for possibly doubling as a concealed carry and a console gun, if it's reliable, and if it doesn't have any functionality issues like the M&P40C seems to.

But, with the percussion of the .40S&W, I'm not sure I would want to go to a smaller framed gun such as the M&P Shield compared to the Taurus Millennium Pro with respect to accuracy.

It's all a trade off, and that's why making these decisions just gets your head to spinning...but, it's fun, and all part of the thrill of the hunt.

If anyone has any direct experience shooting the M&P40 Shield, and the Taurus Millennium Pro, and can elaborate on their respective recoil versus accuracy comparing both models, that would be most appreciated.

Buy american made, while you still can


Read the boards......... Taurus seems to have more than normal poor quality and poor customer service

Wow, I'm sure everyone else is still reading....

Sounds like you are stuck on the Taurus. I don't have a Taurus semi-auto, all my Taurus' are revolvers. They are great, but I have heard some bad things about the semis.

My thought is life is too short to worry about it. But them both or buy the one that turns you on today, you can always sell it or buy more.

Shop around. First responders buy the M&P 40c for $399 with three mags all day long. I don't know if Taurus discounts.

I have a friend with a PX4 that would love to sell it but will take a heck of a loss. Which gun would you take the least loss if you want to sell later?

With the M&P you can drop in a factory $65 9mm barrel and shoot that, or a .357 barrel. Can you do that with Taurus?

I own a Taurus Mil Pro 3rd Gen 9mm and it is a very reliable and accurate firearm. I do not use any dot systems on sights so I hit what I aim at the tops of the sights. I also have a Taurus 740 slim which I can shoot respectable groups at 25 yds but it is a totally different animal than the Mil Pro. I have never had any issues with any of my Taurus guns. I recently got myself a Shield and it is comparable to the 740 slim in size. I say get both, leave the Taurus in the vehicle and carry the Shield.

Pinky extensions are available for the 740. I personally do not like them as I do not mind not using my pinky since I normally shoot and carry a Ruger SP101 .357 for 20+ years and I can not use my pinky on that either. Guess I am used to it after all these years.

40c + Apex DCAEK = Happy Captain1201

I just put this kit in my 45c and have one on order for my 40c plus a RAM to install at the same time. I'm still in my initial WOW phase from my 45c's Apex install and can't wait to get the next one. The Apex kit makes a great gun into an amazing gun.

Woah!

I can only add welcome to the forums and good luck with whatever you posted, I am sure folks here will offer you some solid advice..

Nice novel sir. Welcome to the forum. Get the Shield and you're good-to-go. If you don't like it, you can very likely sell it for more than you paid for it, assuming you don't pay more than $400 to begin with.

I'm not a fan of Taurus bottom feeders. The guns are finished pretty good, but they are priced lower than the competition. That tells me they are cutting corners somewhere. I'd rather pay the extra few bucks and have a gun that is well-made and reliable.

1. Although I'm not personally a fan of the plastic guns I do have a Glock 17 that is 20 years old, never misfired, or presented any problems whatsoever. For a car carry a polymer frame is a great option.
2. If you're set on the .40 okay. You say that you are very efficient with your M&P 9mm, but not so much with the .40. Perhaps its the round rather than the platform. A couple of 9's to the chest of the bad guy may not drill as big of a hole as the .40, but its still a hole.
3. My personal car carry is a 1972 Colt Government in .45 ACP. Because size or weight are not problems with a car carry put which ever piece will fit and can be efficiently handled in your car.
4. Bottom line is find something you like that has a good trigger, usable sights and that can effectively put lead on target with. Of course American made like Smith& Wesson, Colt or Ruger are always my first choices. Sometime you just gotta go with the one that puts that gleam in your eye.

I only managed to get part-way through your post (hint: post the Reader's Digest version!) but I read enough to give you my recommendation: I wouldn't buy a Taurus anything. That is based on prior, actual experience, and not just internet reading.

If your two choices are S&W or Taurus, it's a no-brainer IMO: buy a S&W. For one thing, they are much better pistols. They are American made. S&W has excellent customer service, and a lifetime warranty. S&W doesn't make you pay for shipping for warranty repairs, and a S&W pistol will have resale value.

Ruger makes a good polymer pistol that is worthy of consideration as well.

Storm40 said:

I also have a Taurus 740 slim...I recently got myself a Shield and it is comparable to the 740 slim in size. I say get both, leave the Taurus in the vehicle and carry the Shield.

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Storm, how does the recoil on the PT740 compare to the Shield? And, how do they compare with respect to accuracy?

Cap'n, all I can tell you as a satisfied Shield owner is that you won't go wrong choosing it. Reliability, with over 500 rounds down the pipe so far, has been 100 percent for me. American made is a major consideration too, along with all the other good reasons the posters here have mentioned.

The M&P series is, IMHO, American workmanship at its best in an affordable, reliable, attractive, and truly quality product. I am proud to have owned two of them, and I think the M&P series is destined to be, if it is not already, an American classic.


"You going to draw those pistols, or whistle Dixie?" -- Josey Wales

With so many factors to choose from, what I often do is instead of trying to pick the best, I subjectively eliminate the ones that have features I Don't want. When I get down to 2 then I can make a better objective choice.

If you're having issues with a brand new gun, then why not call S&W CS and have it fixed? I would imagine you won't pay a dime under the warranty repairs....

Captain1201 said:

Storm, how does the recoil on the PT740 compare to the Shield? And, how do they compare with respect to accuracy?

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The recoil of the pt740 slim is noticeable but not unpleasant as long as you have a firm grip. The Shield handles the recoil a little better. The slim has adjustable three dot sights and shot low out of the box but once I dialed it in, the X ring quickly disappeared at 15 yds. The 740 slim did not have the problems of the 709 slim. Most of the problems would have been eliminated if the owners would have simply cleaned out all the heavy grease Taurus uses. I have never have and never will shoot a firearm without giving it a good cleaning first.
The Shield shoots amazingly out of the box and feels excellent in the hand so the edge goes to the Shield. The price I paid for the Shield was $429.99. That was what the Taurus slim and two extra mags cost. The 740 slim with the Glock type takedown is easier to field strip but the trigger has a lot of takeup. Not annoying but different. Hope this helps.

BTW, at 25 yds the Shield is slightly better but both will get the job done.

GKC said:

I only managed to get part-way through your post (hint: post the Reader's Digest version!) but I read enough to give you my recommendation: I wouldn't buy a Taurus anything. That is based on prior, actual experience, and not just internet reading.

If your two choices are S&W or Taurus, it's a no-brainer IMO: buy a S&W. For one thing, they are much better pistols. They are American made. S&W has excellent customer service, and a lifetime warranty. S&W doesn't make you pay for shipping for warranty repairs, and a S&W pistol will have resale value.

Ruger makes a good polymer pistol that is worthy of consideration as well.

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Some Taurus history:
Quote

Smith & Wesson had been purchased by a conglomerate named Bangor Punta. In 1970, Bangor Punta also purchased 54% of Taurus. Thus, the two companies became "sisters". Smith & Wesson never owned Taurus. They were both independent companies. However, during the next seven years, a great deal of technology and methodology was passed between the two. What may come as a surprise to some is that more of what was "right" in Porto Alegre was sent to Springfield than was sent from Springfield to south of the equator.

Storm40 said:

Some Taurus history:
Quote

Smith & Wesson had been purchased by a conglomerate named Bangor Punta. In 1970, Bangor Punta also purchased 54% of Taurus. Thus, the two companies became "sisters". Smith & Wesson never owned Taurus. They were both independent companies. However, during the next seven years, a great deal of technology and methodology was passed between the two. What may come as a surprise to some is that more of what was "right" in Porto Alegre was sent to Springfield than was sent from Springfield to south of the equator.

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And your point would be? If you want to talk corporate history, you need to mention that between 1964 and 1987, several conglomerates owned S&W. In 1987, S&W was bought by an English firm, Tompkins PLC. Then in 2001, and through today, S&W was (and is) owned by the Saf-T-Hammer corporation, which is an American company.

I don't think anyone would try to make a case that Taurus compares favorably to S&W. Of course, everyone has their own preferences, and if you or anyone else likes Taurus products, that is well and good for you/them. The OP asked for opinions, and I gave mine...I think the preponderance of people would agree that Taurus simply doesn't have the level of QC and CS as does S&W.

GKC said:

And your point would be?

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The point is that all manufacturers have made good products and all have made garbage. My experience with any product does not blemish or polish a companies reputation. Therefore, owning several of the firearms that the OP is considering, I evaluate my firearms and not the company. Most of the companies have been in bed with each other and that does not improve or worsen their reputations. American built firearms with foreign parts are equally foreign and so are foreign companies with American parts. Many companies have lifetime warranties. Some make you pay to ship to them and some do not. Stellar CS is great but I prefer not to need it. I own lots of guns from various manufacturers foreign and domestic and do not consider one better than the other. They are tools and nothing more and as long as they work, I am satisfied.

Storm40 said:

I own lots of guns from various manufacturers foreign and domestic and do not consider one better than the other. They are tools and nothing more and as long as they work, I am satisfied.

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I'm glad you are happy with your guns (seriously, not being sarcastic.) For me, and this is just me, I prefer to buy American made firearms with a lifetime warranty that is backed up by excellent quality and extremely effective customer service. I'd prefer not to need service, but I also take comfort in the fact that if it is needed, it will be there...prompt, effective, and at no additional expense to me.

Based on my own personal experience, I cannot say that Taurus meets that criteria...others may feel and have a different experience/perspective. To each his own, and I truly do hope each man is fully satisfied with his choice. If asked, I give my opinion, but I don't wish anyone to have bad luck, even if they choose something I wouldn't.

Whoa is right! I suspect you're like me where you want to see all angles and mull it over until the cows come home before making a decision.

I've never been a fan of Taurus. Nothing against them other than on some of their models they seem to be a little less quality. I don't know anyone who has had major problems with them, I just tend to shy away. A couple revolvers my father has owned have had terrible triggers. But they always went bang.

Seriously, if this is a center concole gun pick most reliable first and Cheap second. I'd only get a Shield for CC puposes and would want a slightly bigger gun if it was just going to sit in my car.

Any serious look at S&W SD's? Mine is built like a tank, there have been no FTE's or FTF's of any kind and for the price they are now, you can't go wrong. It's stainless so it will hold up in the car, it's backed by S&W's warranty, it's not too big to stash in an IWB holster if needed, and, back to the price, you don't have to feel bad like you left an HK in the glove box. True, the trigger pull is a little long and the $20 APEX spring kit helps alot but for your purposes, it doesn't sound like you're going to be using it in competitions anyway.

And it will be $170 cheaper than an M&P40C (my LGS prices- YMMV)

My 2 Cents.

GKC said:

I'd prefer not to need service, but I also take comfort in the fact that if it is needed, it will be there...prompt, effective, and at no additional expense to me.

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I totally agree with you. There is something to be said about companies like Ruger and S&W who treat their customers royally.