Riding the Safety

I’ve never accidentally engaged the safety on any gun I have owned. Since I got a 1911 a year ago I have added an M&P 9MM 2.0, a 2.0 .45, and a Shield EZ 9MM. All with paddle safeties.

I see people advise riding the safety to prevent accidentally engaging it. When I rest my thumb on the safety, it is right up against the slide. I feel like my thumb is gonna get sliced between the slide and the frame. I can move my thumb a bit away from the slide but that doesn’t feel natural at all. I have average sized fingers, not fleshy or anything. I just can’t imagine some skin not being sliced between that fast recoiling slide and the frame.

kbm6893 said:

I’ve never accidentally engaged the safety on any gun I have owned.

I see people advise riding the safety to prevent accidentally engaging it. When I rest my thumb on the safety, it is right up against the slide. I feel like my thumb is gonna get sliced between the slide and the frame. I can move my thumb a bit away from the slide but that doesn’t feel natural at all. I have average sized fingers, not fleshy or anything. I just can’t imagine some skin not being sliced between that fast recoiling slide and the frame.

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I've not seen that advice, but I think it is horse pucky. Just as a test, I pulled out all three of my 1911's to double check where my thumbs are when I have a one- or two-handed grip, and they're well away from the left-side thumb safety (I'm right handed), even with the oversized ones on my Ruger SR1911 and my Springfield EMP4. Even less an issue with my Springfield A1's original-sized safety. Mainly for the reason you mention, not getting sliced by the slide.

It's like anything else in shooting; practice hand position, practice keeping your finger out of the trigger guard, practice thumbing the safety on or off, practice keeping your thumb away from the safety .....practice, practice, practice until handling the gun is automatic (semi-pun intended).

Hair Trigger said:

I've not seen that advice, but I think it is horse pucky. Just as a test, I pulled out all three of my 1911's to double check where my thumbs are when I have a one- or two-handed grip, and they're well away from the left-side thumb safety (I'm right handed), even with the oversized ones on my Ruger SR1911 and my Springfield EMP4. Even less an issue with my Springfield A1's original-sized safety. Mainly for the reason you mention, not getting sliced by the slide.

It's like anything else in shooting; practice hand position, practice keeping your finger out of the trigger guard, practice thumbing the safety on or off, practice keeping your thumb away from the safety .....practice, practice, practice until handling the gun is automatic (semi-pun intended).

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It’s the recoil of the weapon firing that can make your thumb brush the safety up. It’s never happened to me but I have read of it happening and several YouTube videos mention it, and not by the dopey posters. Some respected reviewers have mentioned it.

It's pretty common advice. I think Jeff Cooper even advised something like that. IIRC, there was a time when the Gunsite Service Pistol 1911 had a safety with the lever at the bottom of the plate instead of the top, where it normally is, to accomodate it.





There was even a safety lever with a shield attached so you could ride the thumb safety without your thumb contacting the slide.



FWIW, when I shot my 1911s back in the 90s, I used a Weaver stance with a thumb-over-thumb grip, meaning my right thumb swiped off the safety before resting underneath. I never had a problem with the safety engaging unintentionally, but I was also using the standard Colt thumb safety and not one of the extended/oversized ones.

I have not shot my 1911s since I switched to more of an Isoceles stance with the thumbs forward grip, but in my dry fire experiments I can swipe off the safety, ride the lever, and keep my thumb away from the slide, and that's with the standard Colt safety. Though my right thumb does rest more on the base of my left thumb than the safety. Don't know if I can do that with live fire practice, but I will give it a try when (if?) I can get to the range with my 1911s.

Can't comment on the M&P and Shield levers as I've never handled them.

With all that said, if you haven't had an issue with it, I wouldn't worry too much about it. You could just keep doing what works for you. But I don't think it would hurt (much! ) to experiment if you wanted to try it. Start with dry fire practice and see how your thumb interacts with the slide while riding the lever. Maybe rack the slide with your free hand to see if it would actually contact your thumb or not. If you can do that without the slide touching your thumb, then try it at the range.

Just my opinion.

Edit: Just a quick note. Some people who use a thumbs forward or thumb riding the thumb safety grip may have difficulty disengaging the grip safety. That's why a lot of the beavertail grip safeties have that bump on the bottom, to make sure the grip safety disengages. But it's user dependent. I don't have a problem disengaging the bump-less grip safeties on my 1911s with this grip. Just something else to consider.

I have had the safety engage a couple of times when shooting my MP9.
So I have been riding the safety.
I might add that I'm a left handed shooter, although that shouldn't make any difference.

I can't see where your thumb would "get sliced up", there's just not that much room between slide and safety.

sandog said:

I can't see where your thumb would "get sliced up", there's just not that much room between slide and safety.

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I think it depends on one's hands. I would get occasional slide bite when shooting a Glock 23, and I don't have particularly fleshy hands. But after checking, I don't think my thumb would get sliced up with a 1911 slide while riding the safety. My concern would be my thumb causing drag on the slide, possibly affecting reliability. Not sure if that's a legitimate concern, though. Not sure if that'd be an unpleasant experience, either.

Again, I can't comment on the M&P or Shield models as I haven't handled them.

Hold it the way that feels best for you .
I'm sitting here with a 1911 AMT Hardballer , it has an extended safety .
My thumb doesn't want to lie on top of the safety but below it ...so that's the way I shoot .
I'm thinking like you...keep digits away from fast sharp edged moving parts .
I notice some of the extreme modifications some have done to allow them to get their thumb on the safety and protected from harm...but I'm not going down that rabbit hole .
Gary

ContinentalOp said:

I think it depends on one's hands. I would get occasional slide bite when shooting a Glock 23, and I don't have particularly fleshy hands. But after checking, I don't think my thumb would get sliced up with a 1911 slide while riding the safety. My concern would be my thumb causing drag on the slide, possibly affecting reliability. Not sure if that's a legitimate concern, though. Not sure if that'd be an unpleasant experience, either.

Again, I can't comment on the M&P or Shield models as I haven't handled them.

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Slide bite is real (for some guys).
But we have been talking about getting your thumb caught between the safety and slide, not the same as getting the web of your hand pinched between the rear of slide and back of the frame.

As there is a very minimal amount of space between the slide on all the safeties I've seen, you'd have to have thumbs with loose saggy skin for it to be a problem.

sandog said:

But we have been talking about getting your thumb caught between the safety and slide, not the same as getting the web of your hand pinched between the rear of slide and back of the frame.

As there is a very minimal amount of space between the slide on all the safeties I've seen, you'd have to have thumbs with loose saggy skin for it to be a problem.

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No, we're not talking about getting the thumb caught between the slide and safety. We're talking about the thumb, riding the thumb safety, being against the slide as it reciprocates. Depending on one's thumb, the bottom edge of the slide could contact the thumb, and if sharp enough, could, at least theoretically, cut the thumb. With my hands, that doesn't happen, though the slide rubbing against my thumb could.

I've carried 1911's off duty and as now retired, as EDC for close to 30+ years. I was originally taught the thumbs forward grip with my strong thumb on top of the safety and I have never experienced my thumb making contact with the recoiling slide.

The strong thumb riding the safety also eliminates another problem for me. I have very long thumbs and when I take a grip on firearms without a place to rest my thumb and with the thumbs forward grip, my strong hand thumb tends to reach the slide lock/release lever and keeps the lever from engaging on an empty magazine. With my strong hand thumb on top of the safety, it does not reach the slide lock/release.

With my duty issued DAO Beretta 96 and DAO Sig P226, I learned very quickly to do tactical reloads whenever there was a break in the string of fire, due to my thumb preventing the slide from locking to the rear on an empty magazine.

ContinentalOp said:

No, we're not talking about getting the thumb caught between the slide and safety. We're talking about the thumb, riding the thumb safety, being against the slide as it reciprocates. Depending on one's thumb, the bottom edge of the slide could contact the thumb, and if sharp enough, could, at least theoretically, cut the thumb. With my hands, that doesn't happen, though the slide rubbing against my thumb could.

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That’s exactly what I mean. When I rest my thumb on the safety And rack the slide, the slide brushes up against my thumb as it detracts and goes forward. The gap between the frame and the slide is right there.

I can only speak of 1911's and my thumb does ride the safety. My draw that I practice is flipping the safety off when drawing and leaving my thumb on top of the safety. My plastic guns come without safeties.

I won't speak to 1911s because I don't like them, don't own or carry them, although I used to have a couple of fine Norinco shooters. I got over it. But I recollect that my single action Beretta 950 BS had this precise issue. One round fired and the safety was on, either through recall directly or my thumb bouncing up and hitting it. I never determined it for real but I stopped carrying that mousegun accordingly.

Proper high grip on a 1911 is with thumb ON TOP of safety.

No room below and way to much time to adjust your hands if you need the weapon in an instant.

Man up gents. Learn how to use a 1911. It won't bite you.

Only my 1911s have safeties. Well my M9A1 too but it's decock only now.

My point is I do ride the safety on my 1911s. Have no issue with it. Present and flick safety off. Withdraw and flick safety on.

The only issue I have is when I shoot some other handgun afterwards where I may ride the slide stop and either lock back before mag is empty or fail to lock back on last round. Some of my handguns are more prone to this as they have more prominent slide locks. So at the range I shoot the others first then end with a 1911.

Someone mentioned slide bite earlier. With some guns, a high hand hold, beefy hands, small beavertail, that can happen.
Back of slide, slide bite.

But getting caught between slide and frame on the side of the slide ? That's like a 1/16" gap. I've probably had my thumb rub the slide on many types of pistols in 45 years of shooting. I've never hurt my thumb in the slightest.

Also shot Garands, M1 carbines, M1As, and Mini14/Mini30s (without the lawyer mandated handguard that covers the op-rod) and never hurt my thumb or finger tips. Never heard any of the millions of GIs that shot them complain either.

Have pinched thumbs from the slide/frame gap suddenly become an issue ?

I catch myself doing that when I shoot my Victory 22, especially using the thumbs forward grip. I just have to remember not to use the high hand hold as high as I do and I'm good to go.

I use the "thumb over thumb" hold that was popularized by Jeff Cooper. In this hold, the left thumb is riding the slide stop, but not touching the slide. Then the right thumb is on top of the left thumb. This gives you a very high hold that controls recoil the best.

It may take some practice, but in 30 years I've never had my left thumb touch the slide in any way. Also, you're riding the slide stop, not pushing down on it, so you don't impact the functionality of locking the slide back on the last round.

It's a great, rock steady grip.

sandog said:

Slide bite is real (for some guys).

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Only if you hold the gun wrong. Look, I get it that a high grip helps with control, but if you are getting sliced up by your gun you need to grip it differently or find another gun that clears all your flesh as it operates.

Man up gents. Learn how to use a 1911. It won't bite you.

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Probably true. For the 20th century. It's a nothing gun for the 21st century except, maybe, certain competitions. Totally inadequate for 21st century self defense. YMMV, I know, but it's just a stupid gun to use for the average gun owner. Man up? Buy a useful traditional double action or even striker fired gun and you're way better off. I have no idea why anyone thinks these are useful for self defense in the 21st century, unless you think constant and repetitive training is fun and entertaining. I think training is mandatory, constantly, but using a technology that's more than 100 years old because 45 ACP is mo bigguh mo bettuh is insanity when traditional double action and striker fired pistols in .45 ACP, if that's your choice, are readily available. YMMV