If you conceal carry a pistol with round in the chamber, do you keep your thumb safety on or off? Just to clarify, I have a Smith&Wesson, M&P 9mm EZ with an internal hammer. It has a thumb safety, and a grip safety.

On of course.

The only reason not to is a lack of gunhandling skill. In that instance, you shouldn’t be carrying a gun.

For me, it depends on the mechanics involved.

If the trigger pull weight is at least five pounds, then I might leave the safety off, especially if it's hard to operate reliably with my stiff old fingers.

Welcome to the forum.

None of my carry pistols has or needs a safety. But if I did carry a gun that had and needed one . . . on, of course.

I carry with a round in all five chambers. No safety, tho.

Condition 1, chambered round with safety ON. 1911’s and BHP, during draw safety pushed off by habit. Revolvers always full cylinder.

Depends on the pistol. 1911, yes. Shield, no . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Don't have the thumb safety on my Shield Plus so not an issue, carry it chambered. My multiple 1911s all get carried "cocked and locked" with a round chambered. My revolvers are 6 shot and all chambers of the cylinder are loaded.

Yes always carry in condition #1 loaded and ready!

The bad guy isn't going to wait for you to chamber a round! Nor will the bad guy stand in one spot perfectly still like a paper target for you ether! I like lasers.

All guns come with a "safety" its called a trigger. If you don't want the gun to go BOOM don't pull it!

Holster is the safety, none of my carry guns have a safety beyond that.

E: excluding built in things like trigger dinguses/drop safeties

I wonder if people felt a manual safety was such an impediment in the 75 years before Glocks came along?

Only guns I have without a safety are my revolvers and my DAO semi auto pistols. My two carry guns are the Shield Plus and LC9S. Both carried safety on. I occasionally carry a Bodyguard .380. Such a long trigger that I leave it off once it’s holstered.

A striker gun does not need a manual safety.
I carry with one in the chamber but the gun has no manual safety.

"Safety" is between your ears.

Why the distinction between a safety not being needed on a striker gun? I wouldn’t own a striker gun without one, and I own several. 5 pound trigger without a hammer to thumb as I holster? Forget about it. I’ll carry a DAO without one but not a striker. And I carried Glocks for years. Just wouldn’t again when there are alternatives.

I figured it wouldn’t be long until we heard “safety is between my ears”. How long until we hear “keep your booger hook off the bang switch”?

The quickest possible safe presentation of a firearm in the "must shoot to live" portion of a self defense circumstance is paramount.

In the proper holster, there is no reason to apply the thumb safety of a Shield, Ruger LC9 or any of the other modern service/protection semi-auto's that have that feature.

I like to reduce self defense firearm choice to the simplest requirement for its quick operation. No empty chamber carry ever. No thumb safety applied UNLESS the particular pistol requires it for safe carry. Single action 1911's and their ilk must have the thumb safety applied for carry. Always choose a quality holster, with a covered trigger, in good condition, made for the specific pistol being carried.

What kind of gun do you have Jayarby? The answer to your question depends very much on the gun. For concealed carry, if it has a safety, use it. Other uses like some matches where actions are opened and/or flags used, the answer may be different.

Sometimes I have a hard time understanding why this one keeps coming up. All self defense guns should be carried fully loaded. those that carry without a round in the chamber simply lack proper training! Striker fired guns carried in a proper holster do not need a safety. I have one on my Gen 1 Shield, not by choice and have never used it or needed it. Single Action Semi's such as 1911's and BHP's were designed to be carried in condition 1 which is cocked and locked. Most DA/SA semi autos have a heavy enough trigger that they don't require the use of a safety either. I even run into those that refuse to carry a round under the hammer of a DA revolver. the only handguns that should be carried that way are single action revolvers such as Colts and Rugers without the transfer bar alteration. Why limit the number of rounds available to you in an emergency or the speed in which you are able to deploy the weapon by not carrying the gun fully loaded. The simple answer is to receive proper training. End OF RANT !

Except for 1911’s and BHP, I don’t think I have ever carried a gun with safety on. The answer is round in the chamber and loaded for duty carry; finger off the trigger, always assume gun is loaded, and never point it at someone unless you are ready to use and engage. I have trained like that my whole adult life, but especially so the past 23 years

SA systems (like 1911), On.
DAO (revolver style trigger), 'Traditional DAO' (DA/SA) and Striker Fire, Off.
Actually, none of my DAO, or Striker Fire pistols even have a Thumb Safety.

All I would say is if one uses the safety then better train for that extra ‘step’. I have seen plenty at the range (and I have been guilty) where someone ends up looking at the gun as it didnt fire, finally lowering the safety lever. I would think/assume that with enough repetitions that it becomes second nature.
Adding that it seems many ranges don’t allow drawing from a holster, so that “training with the safety” may end up being at home while dry firing.
Now my .02 may not mean much, I don’t carry often and when I have it is more on family property and not out in public. But when I am at the point of carrying full time I will ensure I am competent with my firearm. Safety or no.

When carrying your firearm, it should be as quickly accessible as possible, while also being safely holstered. The more steps it takes to draw, the longer it'll take. The condition of your carry pistol is your choice to make. However and whatever you decide to carry - TRAIN, TRAIN, TRAIN. Practice your draw as often as you can. You can't do this enough. I carry a striker fired pistol, round in the chamber, with no manual safety. That works for me.

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I carry every time I leave Home. Guns are always loaded those with safety's are always on. Those who do not have safety's are carried with extra caution. Always in a Holster that covers the trigger. I have been carrying 50 years and that the way i do it.

I’m aware a proper holster is paramount when carrying a gun. I’m also aware that the gun has to get in and out of that holster for routine handling, and a 5 pound trigger with no hammer makes a ND more likely. A manual safety makes them less likely. We all do things automatically every day. I don’t think about stepping on the brake before shifting into drive. Millions of people carried guns with safeties before glock came along.

I hear “striker fired handguns don’t need a safety” a lot, and I hear the much more intelligent “striker fired handguns don’t need a safety when they are carried in a holster that covered the trigger” less often but still quite frequently.

I also hear the argument that striker fired handguns require *less* training as the officer/armed citizen doesn’t need to be trained to always move the safety lever to the “fire” position when the handgun is drawn and pointed down range at the target.

None of the above statements are entirely true or correct.

You don’t have to look very far to find an example of a police officer stressed after a real world shoot who experiences a negligent discharge when they try to reholster their service pistol with their finger still inside the trigger guard. Over the decades since the Glock became a thing in police duty use, duty holsters have evolved to carry Glocks a lot farther out from the leg. Why? Because “Glock Leg” was a way too common occurrence.

Just as often you’ll find examples of officers or armed citizens experiencing a negligent discharge when attempting to holster or reholster a striker fired handgun with an object such as the pull cord on a jacket or wad of shirt obstructing the trigger and causing it to fire when the handgun is shoved in the holster. Striker fired and guns are a poor choice for IWB concealed carry, unless:

1) the holster is easily removed from the belt to allow the pistol to be reholstered with the handgun out in front of the shooter where he/she can observe it being reholstered free from any potential obstructions, and then placed back inside the waistband; or

2) the mouth of the holster is larger enough and stiff enough and located in an area where the shooter can fully observe and remove any potential obstructions while the pistol is reholstered.

Ignore 1 & 2 at your peril. Some percentage of people will disagree with both approaches and a percentage of those will shoot themselves in the leg sooner or later.

A trigger guard isn’t the solution. It does a good job of preventing objects, including fingers from contacting the trigger while it is in the holster, but can pose a real threat while the handgun is being holstered. It takes a significant degree of situational awareness and training to prevent those kinds of negligent discharges.

In short, the training required to safely carry a striker fired handgun isn’t *less*, it’s just *different* as the risks, threats and potential errors they pose is different.

Striker fired handguns lack certain safety features found on other types of handguns:
- many of them lack a manual safety;
- all or nearly all of the lack the long and/or fairly heavy trigger pull of a DA or DAO revolver or pistol; and
- all of them lack the tactile feedback of an exposed hammer coming back as the trigger is pulled (although a few models allow the user to prevent the striker from firing by pressing on the back of the frame and interrupting the process of full cocking the striker before it is released).

Those shortcomings *must* be fully addressed in training to prevent a negligent discharge.

——-

The 1911 and other SA only handguns present different training needs - not *more*, just *different*. For example a 1911 or Hi Power shooter should learn to draw the pistol and move the thumb on top of the safety lever as the pistol comes up on target. The shooter then presses the safety down to the fire position and keeps his/her thumb there. It quickly becomes *the* shooting grip and it becomes an automatic response for the thumb to both be there, and to press the safety lever down as the front sight begins to come on target and keep pressing down as part of the normal shooting grip.

Some SA pistols are not very friendly in that regard. For example Sig makes the otherwise excellent P210A, which is a great pistol, except for the safety lever which is way to sharp edged and doesn’t encourage the shooter keeping his thumb on it. To be fair it’s intended as a target pistol with a target grip more in keeping with what you’d use on an S&W 41. Keep those intended purposes and design compromises in mind when selecting a self defense pistol.

In addition, the 1911 or Hi Power shooter needs to learn to reengage the safety before reholstering. If they also learn to put their thumb over the front of the hammer when reholstering it’s a bonus, especially with a 1911 as it also ensures the web of the hand is off the grip safety as well.

Holster wise back in the day it was not uncommon to encounter a 1911 OWB or duty holster that left the trigger exposed. That made it less likely for a stressed officer to put a round into the ground or floor if they tried to reholster with the safety off and finger still inside the trigger guard.

For those who say “a holster that covers the trigger is sufficient and there is no need for a safety on a 1911, Hi Power, etc”, I’ll suggest you haven’t hung around enough at tactical matches where sooner or later an overly excited shooter moves his finger too aggressively and too soon onto the trigger and puts a round in the dirt anywhere from a foot to 10 yards in front of himself before the gun is even close to being on target.

Holsters that have a retention lock that must be deactivated with the trigger finger create similar issues in duty holsters as that learned movement to unlock the retention device with the trigger finger carries over under extreme stress and time pressure to moving the finger onto the trigger vigorously enough to cause the pistol to fire. It’s a good idea, it just has unintended and very negative consequences.

——

DA revolvers and pistols are arguably the sweet spot, especially when they have an exposed hammer. The long and usually heavy DA trigger pull gives a fair amount of warning if an obstruction is encountered when reholstering.

Even better, if the thumb is placed over the back of the hammer when reholstering, that hammer coming back is a very obvious tactile indicator the trigger is being pulled.

And of course there is no safety to disengage, or at least a safety isn’t needed if present (such as on a CZ75B). It’s far more common to find a decocking lever (such as on the CZ75D) that allows the shooter to decock the pistol post shoot, without having to rely on fine motor skills to hold and then gently lower the hammer while pulling the trigger.

Either way, the shooter needs to be trained to either lower the hammer post shoot, or operate the decocking lever before reholstering. Again it’s not an issue of more or less training just *different* training.

Yes, I keep it on or off. Depends on the pistol. If it;s a single action it's cocked and locked. If it's TDA it's decocked safety off. If it's striker fired safety on or off is personal preference. Some of mine have a safety, some don't.

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Or something like that . . .

Both of my Shields have a safety switch. I carry with a round in the chamber and the safety on. If you have a firearm with a safety, I recommend you practice draw and dry fire many, many, times. Like several thousand times. That will build the muscle memory needed to swipe the safety off without thinking about it. I find myself swiping the safety on guns that don't have a safety. Well, trying to swipe the non existent safety.

I carry with a round in the chamber, ALWAYS! The only pistol/revolver I own with a factory safety is my Heritage .22 LR Rough Rider revolver.
The only other firearms I own with a factory installed safety are my AR's. That's how the lower receiver and parts kits are sold/made.

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How many guns are too many?

Striker guns carried in the pocket without a holster need a safety. Which is why I carry a DAO hammer fired M&P bodyguard rather than a micro striker fired pistol. Which is why I have safeties on my P365 and my M&P 9

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Forum consigliere

I carry this lovely Beretta with the safety on. I’m used to swiping it down.

I rarely carry this 645, but when I do the safety is off. I’m not that used to pushing the safety up.

When Uncle Sugar had me carrying an M9 I left the safety off. Same reason as above. Uncle was fine with it.

I get the whole “you’ll never remember under stress!!” argument, beloved by so many minimum-wage CCW instructors. I’ve been under stress many times, and I never forgot how my gun worked.

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Rule of law, not a man.

The bottom line is, If your pistol has a safety use it, If it doesn't you need to be extra carefull. AND YOU NEED TO PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE; until presenting your pistol of choice in such a fashion as to be prepared to stop the threat without thought. And as a civilian you should only use the one pistol at all times so that muscle is not confused.

And if you change to another style of pistol you must go back to the starting line and practice, practice, practice; until you have built the muscle memory for that pistol. Because you will have lost some of the muscle memory from your previous pistol with this new technique you will need to reestablish the memory. It won't be all gone as many of the processes will be the same but still you will have to relearn the processes.

The guns I carry don't have safeties and all five cylinders are loaded.

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Dear Lord, make it stop. There must be 100 threads in the archives on this topic. Oh, well.
I don't know why it shocks me any more that opinions come out that, let's say, make me question whether some folks ever took firearms training.
If you aren't sure enough of your own skills that you need to leave the chamber empty or a safety in the on position....
25 of my 35 years with the police dept were the years when we transitioned to semi-autos. We were trained from day 1 in 1989 to keep the pistol chambered and leave the safety/decocker off when in the holster. The instruction was very emphatic on those points. We were also taught to use the decocker function, snap on-snap off, to drop the hammer immediately prior to holstering. When striker-fired guns became more popular and were added to the approved roster, they were to be holstered with the safety off also. All made part of firearms policy. I mean, gee, the whole point of carrying a firearm is to be the first to draw and fire accurately when a felon presents a credible threat to kill you. Having all these self-imposed hoops to jump thru kinda defeats the purpose, don't cha think???
I learned that system and still use it to this day. Other than two or three Glock ADs that happened to people I know, I never heard of an incident related to the practice when using real guns...

Safeties, we don’t need no stinking safeties…….none of my micro carries have them.

Always one in the chamber!! Learn proper handing of your gun and you dont need a safety. My $0.02

I practice at the range and dry firing at home pulling from my conceal carry holster so its a non issue.


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Off always. I carry a CS 45, it is as safe as a revolver.

Mostly carrying J-frame Model 60ND as of late.

But when I do carry my Series I Kimber Ultra Carry .45ACP (in Milt Sparks VMII), always "condition 1"

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I wont own a gun without a manual safety and always use it.

No safety = 340PD & LCP.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

It depends on the gun. In the case of my M&P40 Shield, I keep the thumb safety engaged, but then again, it's a Performance Center model with a rather light trigger.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Whatever method/system you prefer, if it makes sense, you use it consistently, and you practice enough, it won’t matter, IMO. I like my modern plastic guns to have a safety lock, which I do use, because I grew up with the 1911 and feel comfortable with its manual of arms. Others with different backgrounds will have different preferences, which is fine with me. Does the gun need one? It’s a silly question. The gun needs nothing. The shooter may, and I am one of those who thinks he does.

Consistency and practice are what I’d be most concerned about. The exception is the empty chamber thing. I just don’t get that one.

I happen to agree with that but don't think a striker fired pistol should be carried in a pocket without a holster!

I do not want to ask my assailant to wait until I rack the slide or flick the safety. I do use a holster to avoid accidental discharge. As I slow down with age, I have begun carrying a J frame more than semi-autos.

Just to stir the pot, and I won’t go into a lengthy discussion, but people wiser than I told me long ago to keep the hammer down on an empty chamber until I was ready to fire.

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and what his trumpet saith

A long time ago with single action revolvers that was good advice.

A hard blow to a hammer such as dropping the gun on the hammer could cause it to fire.

But modern revolvers from s&w and ruger have internal safety features that make keeping a loaded chamber under the hammer safe -- even if the gun is dropped.

I only pocket carry snubbie revolvers with all 5 (or 6) chambers loaded.

In my humble opinion there is no right or wrong answer to this issue. What law enforcement folks do is far different from what civilians do. What we did in combat situations while I was in Vietnam was different depending on what we were doing even though we carried our weapons constantly.

Not every gun owner is well trained or have the same proficiencies. I do what I am comfortable with, not what my next door neighbor does.

I've long been curious about something. Without singling out any particular member above, I've seen people post they carry their 1911 with the hammer cocked and safety on, but they feel a safety on a striker fired pistol is not necessary. So why does a four pound trigger pull on the 1911 need a safety, but a five pound trigger pull on a striker gun does not? Is it the trigger safety on the striker gun?

Yup. Next . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I purchased a brand new M&P 2.0 Compact a few years ago with the thumb safety because I am old school and was afraid of carrying a striker fired pistol.
Fast forward to today, and that same 2.0 Compact, I recently REMOVED the thumb safety and installed those plugs. I did replace the trigger return spring that increased the trigger pull to about 7 lbs. and am fully confident in carrying one in the chamber.
No thumb safety need with a little thought when handling the pistol....

I never rely on a thumb safety unless I'm carrying a single action pistol like a BHP or 1911 and you won't catch me carrying one of those for that very reason. All my concealed carry guns have a round in the chamber, I think they're useless otherwise, and that includes my traditional double action 3rd Gen carry guns and my one striker fired pistol (obviously, we're not discussing revolvers, which I also routinely carry).

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Come and take it!!

The two rules of a gun fight:

1. Have a gun.

2. Make sure it's loaded.

SAFETY ON..... but only if there is one on the gun, otherwise, I ask my wife for advice.

J.