Carry with a round in the chamber?

I carry every time I leave Home. Guns are always loaded those with safety's are always on. Those who do not have safety's are carried with extra caution. Always in a Holster that covers the trigger. I have been carrying 50 years and that the way i do it.
 
The quickest possible safe presentation of a firearm in the "must shoot to live" portion of a self defense circumstance is paramount.

In the proper holster, there is no reason to apply the thumb safety of a Shield, Ruger LC9 or any of the other modern service/protection semi-auto's that have that feature.

I like to reduce self defense firearm choice to the simplest requirement for its quick operation. No empty chamber carry ever. No thumb safety applied UNLESS the particular pistol requires it for safe carry. Single action 1911's and their ilk must have the thumb safety applied for carry. Always choose a quality holster, with a covered trigger, in good condition, made for the specific pistol being carried.

I'm aware a proper holster is paramount when carrying a gun. I'm also aware that the gun has to get in and out of that holster for routine handling, and a 5 pound trigger with no hammer makes a ND more likely. A manual safety makes them less likely. We all do things automatically every day. I don't think about stepping on the brake before shifting into drive. Millions of people carried guns with safeties before glock came along.
 
I hear "striker fired handguns don't need a safety" a lot, and I hear the much more intelligent "striker fired handguns don't need a safety when they are carried in a holster that covered the trigger" less often but still quite frequently.

I also hear the argument that striker fired handguns require *less* training as the officer/armed citizen doesn't need to be trained to always move the safety lever to the "fire" position when the handgun is drawn and pointed down range at the target.

None of the above statements are entirely true or correct.

You don't have to look very far to find an example of a police officer stressed after a real world shoot who experiences a negligent discharge when they try to reholster their service pistol with their finger still inside the trigger guard. Over the decades since the Glock became a thing in police duty use, duty holsters have evolved to carry Glocks a lot farther out from the leg. Why? Because "Glock Leg" was a way too common occurrence.

Just as often you'll find examples of officers or armed citizens experiencing a negligent discharge when attempting to holster or reholster a striker fired handgun with an object such as the pull cord on a jacket or wad of shirt obstructing the trigger and causing it to fire when the handgun is shoved in the holster. Striker fired and guns are a poor choice for IWB concealed carry, unless:

1) the holster is easily removed from the belt to allow the pistol to be reholstered with the handgun out in front of the shooter where he/she can observe it being reholstered free from any potential obstructions, and then placed back inside the waistband; or

2) the mouth of the holster is larger enough and stiff enough and located in an area where the shooter can fully observe and remove any potential obstructions while the pistol is reholstered.

Ignore 1 & 2 at your peril. Some percentage of people will disagree with both approaches and a percentage of those will shoot themselves in the leg sooner or later.

A trigger guard isn't the solution. It does a good job of preventing objects, including fingers from contacting the trigger while it is in the holster, but can pose a real threat while the handgun is being holstered. It takes a significant degree of situational awareness and training to prevent those kinds of negligent discharges.

In short, the training required to safely carry a striker fired handgun isn't *less*, it's just *different* as the risks, threats and potential errors they pose is different.

Striker fired handguns lack certain safety features found on other types of handguns:
- many of them lack a manual safety;
- all or nearly all of the lack the long and/or fairly heavy trigger pull of a DA or DAO revolver or pistol; and
- all of them lack the tactile feedback of an exposed hammer coming back as the trigger is pulled (although a few models allow the user to prevent the striker from firing by pressing on the back of the frame and interrupting the process of full cocking the striker before it is released).

Those shortcomings *must* be fully addressed in training to prevent a negligent discharge.

——-

The 1911 and other SA only handguns present different training needs - not *more*, just *different*. For example a 1911 or Hi Power shooter should learn to draw the pistol and move the thumb on top of the safety lever as the pistol comes up on target. The shooter then presses the safety down to the fire position and keeps his/her thumb there. It quickly becomes *the* shooting grip and it becomes an automatic response for the thumb to both be there, and to press the safety lever down as the front sight begins to come on target and keep pressing down as part of the normal shooting grip.

Some SA pistols are not very friendly in that regard. For example Sig makes the otherwise excellent P210A, which is a great pistol, except for the safety lever which is way to sharp edged and doesn't encourage the shooter keeping his thumb on it. To be fair it's intended as a target pistol with a target grip more in keeping with what you'd use on an S&W 41. Keep those intended purposes and design compromises in mind when selecting a self defense pistol.

In addition, the 1911 or Hi Power shooter needs to learn to reengage the safety before reholstering. If they also learn to put their thumb over the front of the hammer when reholstering it's a bonus, especially with a 1911 as it also ensures the web of the hand is off the grip safety as well.

Holster wise back in the day it was not uncommon to encounter a 1911 OWB or duty holster that left the trigger exposed. That made it less likely for a stressed officer to put a round into the ground or floor if they tried to reholster with the safety off and finger still inside the trigger guard.

For those who say "a holster that covers the trigger is sufficient and there is no need for a safety on a 1911, Hi Power, etc", I'll suggest you haven't hung around enough at tactical matches where sooner or later an overly excited shooter moves his finger too aggressively and too soon onto the trigger and puts a round in the dirt anywhere from a foot to 10 yards in front of himself before the gun is even close to being on target.

Holsters that have a retention lock that must be deactivated with the trigger finger create similar issues in duty holsters as that learned movement to unlock the retention device with the trigger finger carries over under extreme stress and time pressure to moving the finger onto the trigger vigorously enough to cause the pistol to fire. It's a good idea, it just has unintended and very negative consequences.

——

DA revolvers and pistols are arguably the sweet spot, especially when they have an exposed hammer. The long and usually heavy DA trigger pull gives a fair amount of warning if an obstruction is encountered when reholstering.

Even better, if the thumb is placed over the back of the hammer when reholstering, that hammer coming back is a very obvious tactile indicator the trigger is being pulled.

And of course there is no safety to disengage, or at least a safety isn't needed if present (such as on a CZ75B). It's far more common to find a decocking lever (such as on the CZ75D) that allows the shooter to decock the pistol post shoot, without having to rely on fine motor skills to hold and then gently lower the hammer while pulling the trigger.

Either way, the shooter needs to be trained to either lower the hammer post shoot, or operate the decocking lever before reholstering. Again it's not an issue of more or less training just *different* training.
 
Yes, I keep it on or off. Depends on the pistol. If it;s a single action it's cocked and locked. If it's TDA it's decocked safety off. If it's striker fired safety on or off is personal preference. Some of mine have a safety, some don't.
 
Both of my Shields have a safety switch. I carry with a round in the chamber and the safety on. If you have a firearm with a safety, I recommend you practice draw and dry fire many, many, times. Like several thousand times. That will build the muscle memory needed to swipe the safety off without thinking about it. I find myself swiping the safety on guns that don't have a safety. Well, trying to swipe the non existent safety.
 
I carry with a round in the chamber, ALWAYS! The only pistol/revolver I own with a factory safety is my Heritage .22 LR Rough Rider revolver.
The only other firearms I own with a factory installed safety are my AR's. That's how the lower receiver and parts kits are sold/made.
 
Sometimes I have a hard time understanding why this one keeps coming up. All self defense guns should be carried fully loaded. those that carry without a round in the chamber simply lack proper training! Striker fired guns carried in a proper holster do not need a safety. I have one on my Gen 1 Shield, not by choice and have never used it or needed it. Single Action Semi's such as 1911's and BHP's were designed to be carried in condition 1 which is cocked and locked. Most DA/SA semi autos have a heavy enough trigger that they don't require the use of a safety either. I even run into those that refuse to carry a round under the hammer of a DA revolver. the only handguns that should be carried that way are single action revolvers such as Colts and Rugers without the transfer bar alteration. Why limit the number of rounds available to you in an emergency or the speed in which you are able to deploy the weapon by not carrying the gun fully loaded. The simple answer is to receive proper training. End OF RANT !
Striker guns carried in the pocket without a holster need a safety. Which is why I carry a DAO hammer fired M&P bodyguard rather than a micro striker fired pistol. Which is why I have safeties on my P365 and my M&P 9
 
I carry this lovely Beretta with the safety on. I'm used to swiping it down.

I rarely carry this 645, but when I do the safety is off. I'm not that used to pushing the safety up.

When Uncle Sugar had me carrying an M9 I left the safety off. Same reason as above. Uncle was fine with it.

I get the whole "you'll never remember under stress!!" argument, beloved by so many minimum-wage CCW instructors. I've been under stress many times, and I never forgot how my gun worked.
 

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The bottom line is, If your pistol has a safety use it, If it doesn't you need to be extra carefull. AND YOU NEED TO PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE; until presenting your pistol of choice in such a fashion as to be prepared to stop the threat without thought. And as a civilian you should only use the one pistol at all times so that muscle is not confused.

And if you change to another style of pistol you must go back to the starting line and practice, practice, practice; until you have built the muscle memory for that pistol. Because you will have lost some of the muscle memory from your previous pistol with this new technique you will need to reestablish the memory. It won't be all gone as many of the processes will be the same but still you will have to relearn the processes.
 
Dear Lord, make it stop. There must be 100 threads in the archives on this topic. Oh, well.
I don't know why it shocks me any more that opinions come out that, let's say, make me question whether some folks ever took firearms training.
If you aren't sure enough of your own skills that you need to leave the chamber empty or a safety in the on position.... :rolleyes:
25 of my 35 years with the police dept were the years when we transitioned to semi-autos. We were trained from day 1 in 1989 to keep the pistol chambered and leave the safety/decocker off when in the holster. The instruction was very emphatic on those points. We were also taught to use the decocker function, snap on-snap off, to drop the hammer immediately prior to holstering. When striker-fired guns became more popular and were added to the approved roster, they were to be holstered with the safety off also. All made part of firearms policy. I mean, gee, the whole point of carrying a firearm is to be the first to draw and fire accurately when a felon presents a credible threat to kill you. Having all these self-imposed hoops to jump thru kinda defeats the purpose, don't cha think??? :confused:
I learned that system and still use it to this day. Other than two or three Glock ADs that happened to people I know, I never heard of an incident related to the practice when using real :D guns...
 
Safeties, we don't need no stinking safeties…….none of my micro carries have them.

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Always one in the chamber!! Learn proper handing of your gun and you dont need a safety. My $0.02

I practice at the range and dry firing at home pulling from my conceal carry holster so its a non issue.


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Mostly carrying J-frame Model 60ND as of late.

But when I do carry my Series I Kimber Ultra Carry .45ACP (in Milt Sparks VMII), always "condition 1"
 

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It depends on the gun. In the case of my M&P40 Shield, I keep the thumb safety engaged, but then again, it's a Performance Center model with a rather light trigger.
 
Whatever method/system you prefer, if it makes sense, you use it consistently, and you practice enough, it won't matter, IMO. I like my modern plastic guns to have a safety lock, which I do use, because I grew up with the 1911 and feel comfortable with its manual of arms. Others with different backgrounds will have different preferences, which is fine with me. ;) Does the gun need one? It's a silly question. The gun needs nothing. The shooter may, and I am one of those who thinks he does.

Consistency and practice are what I'd be most concerned about. The exception is the empty chamber thing. I just don't get that one.
 
Striker guns carried in the pocket without a holster need a safety. Which is why I carry a DAO hammer fired M&P bodyguard rather than a micro striker fired pistol. Which is why I have safeties on my P365 and my M&P 9

I happen to agree with that but don't think a striker fired pistol should be carried in a pocket without a holster!
 
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