Problem with M&P 10mm + Customer Service Nightmare

dla said:
* * *
Will the mag drop if you barely hold onto the pistol? I'm trying to understand if the recoil force is flexing the grip into the user's hand.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:

Nobody with any significant experience shooting handguns shoots one while “barely holding onto the pistol,” especially one chambered for an energetic cartridge like the 10mm AUTO. They don’t do it on the range, nor would they do it in a real-deal confrontation. Advising the OP to “limp-wrist” the gun while shooting it is idiotic.

OP: if this M&P is a malf-ing dog like your last one, don’t screw around trying to “fix” it. Send it back to S&W and demand a complete refund, including tax, shipping, and any transfer fees you incurred from your FFL.

Take that refund and put it toward a 10mm-something else ... S.A.’s compact XDM or maybe Sig’s P320 X pistol.

Even the Croation-made Grand Power P40 and P40L pistols looks more like 10mm winners than these hit-or-miss M&Ps.

Good luck with whatever you decide. :cool:
 
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Frank Black said:
OP: if this M&P is a malf-ing dog like your last one, don’t screw around trying to “fix” it. Send it back to S&W and demand a complete refund, including tax, shipping, and any transfer fees you incurred from your FFL.

Take that refund and put it toward a 10mm-something else ... S.A.’s compact XDM or maybe Sig’s P320 X pistol.

Even the Croation-made Grand Power P40 and P40L pistols looks more like 10mm winners than these hit-or-miss M&Ps.

Good luck with whatever you decide. :cool:
Click to expand...

I expect to hear back from S&W tomorrow. We'll see what they say.
 
I was just fondling and pondering the 4.6" 10mm at a LGS Saturday. Rethinking that now that you have received 2 with same issue.

Rosewood
 
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Frank Black said:
:rolleyes:

Nobody with any significant experience shooting handguns shoots one while “barely holding onto the pistol,” especially one chambered for an energetic cartridge like the 10mm AUTO. They don’t do it on the range, nor would they do it in a real-deal confrontation. Advising the OP to “limp-wrist” the gun while shooting it is idiotic.
Click to expand...

Yes, I suppose it is over your head unless I provide a long explanation.
I was attempting to isolate the conditions under which the mag will drop. It is what I do when I'm debugging a problem like this - and it is not difficult or dangerous for an experienced shooter.
 
mark_lives_things said:
By the way, here's a link to videos of the mag drop happening with the second/replacement pistol. (See the Twitter thread linked in the first post of this thread for vids of the same issue with the original gun): Update your browser to use Google Drive, Docs, Sheets, Sites, Slides, and Forms - Google Drive Help
Click to expand...

Great videos! Very helpful.
No offense, but your grip is close enough to "limpwristing" to answer my question about when in the recoil cycle the mag drip is happening.
Imo, the grip body is deforming enough when the barrel drops, that the mag catch dissengages.

You could probably get the mag to drop by squeezing the grip body in a bench vice.

The only real cure for this is a slight redesign of the magazine release.
 
I'm linking the best video I could find of slow motion pistol firing.
If you watch the portion of the frame by the muzzle, you can see two distinct frame flex events. The first occurs shortly after the bullet clears the muzzle, the second much later when the slide hits the stop.
I'm thinking that the first is where your frame is flexing enough for the mag catch to let go of the magazine. This cannot be fixed with grip change, or springs, etc. - it is a function of bullet momentum.

Super slow-motion video of bullets leaving a handgun - YouTube
 
Does anyone make an aftermarket mag catch for the M&P 45 that might fit the 10? Might be a solution. Granted S&W should fix this either way.

Rosewood
 
rosewood said:
Does anyone make an aftermarket mag catch for the M&P 45 that might fit the 10? Might be a solution. Granted S&W should fix this either way.

Rosewood
Click to expand...

As you say, regardless of what the problem is, it's S&W's responsibility to fix it.

I'm not about to spend my own money on a speculative solution to *maybe* make a brand new but defective pistol work. It's S&W's responsibility to fix this or refund my money so I can buy something that works.
 
Thanks for saving me MONEY!!!

After reading multiple problems about this model, my S&W 10mm lust has been extinguished. Kind of like being close to a gorgeous woman, when she breaks wind.

I sincerely hope the engineering, marketing and CFO are monitoring this forum...but probably not. Too bad, this might be a critical point in their history.
 
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mark_lives_things said:
As you say, regardless of what the problem is, it's S&W's responsibility to fix it.

I'm not about to spend my own money on a speculative solution to *maybe* make a brand new but defective pistol work. It's S&W's responsibility to fix this or refund my money so I can buy something that works.
Click to expand...

And I'm pretty sure you know this, but I just have to say it again. You touch it and they will make YOU the problem!
 
dla said:
I'm linking the best video I could find of slow motion pistol firing.
If you watch the portion of the frame by the muzzle, you can see two distinct frame flex events. The first occurs shortly after the bullet clears the muzzle, the second much later when the slide hits the stop.
I'm thinking that the first is where your frame is flexing enough for the mag catch to let go of the magazine. This cannot be fixed with grip change, or springs, etc. - it is a function of bullet momentum.

Super slow-motion video of bullets leaving a handgun - YouTube
Click to expand...

Those are good videos illustrating frame flex in a handgun.

I’m agreeing with your thinking on frame flex. As a parallel, frame flex in Glocks modified for .460 Rowland is an issue with mags and the mag release, to the extent there are mag shims designed to limit the amount of relative motion between frame and magazine.

I think it’s feasible that the M&P frame is flexing enough under recoil from hot loads with heavy bullets that the mag catch is disengaging from the magazibe.
 
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mark_lives_things said:
By the way, here's a link to videos of the mag drop happening with the second/replacement pistol. (See the Twitter thread linked in the first post of this thread for vids of the same issue with the original gun): Update your browser to use Google Drive, Docs, Sheets, Sites, Slides, and Forms - Google Drive Help
Click to expand...

If you’re 2 out of 2 pistols exhibiting this issue, then it seems like a design issue and not the case of just getting a lemon.

For my own internet, I have a couple of questions:

1. Does the mag drop happen with only the 220 gr Underwood, or across multiple calibers?

2. Does the failure happen only with a one handed grip?

3. You’re running all stock springs?
 
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