"Not ever" is an awfully long time and public opinion is an awfully fickle thing. I wouldn't bet money that it will NEVER be popular again. Sure it may be a while, and maybe outside the scope of OUR lifetimes but speaking in absolutes is the surest way to be wrong.

The term "AR-15" is about as misused as the term "Assault Rifle". The AR-15 was first built by by ArmaLite as an assault rifle for the US armed forces. Because of financial problems, ArmaLite sold the AR-15 design to Colt in 1959. Colt started selling the "semi-automatic " version of the M16 as the Colt AR-15 for civilian sales in 1963 and the term has been used to refer to semiautomatic-only versions of the rifle since them. The name "AR-15" is a Colt registered trademark.
The term "Assault Rifle" refers to ONLY those rifles capable of firing "full auto". Automatic variants have a three-position rotating selective fire switch, allowing the operator to select between three modes: safe, semi-automatic, and either automatic or three-round burst, depending on model.
Civilian Colt AR-15 models DO NOT have three-round burst or automatic settings on the fire selector.

We both don't like the term "assault rifle/weapon" being applied to the AR-15 platform rifles. Gun owners calling it a "modern sporting rifle" is not going to ever change what opponents of gun rights call it. Ever. I've already detailed the reason for this being that you can not tell the difference between an actual, full auto M4/M16 assault rifle and a civilian AR-15 from the non-safety side of the rifle. You can't put them side by side on a table and tell the gun grabber "that ones is an assault rifle and that one is a modern sporting rifle. got it?" That just won't work. THAT is the reality we have to deal with.

And even if you could get the difference straightened out in everyone's mind and everyone is calling civilian versions MSR's, the politicians and people backing them who are going after guns don't care what it's called. To them a one round burst vs. a 3 round burst is splitting hairs. Calling one a different name than another just doesn't matter in this fight. It's not in the name. Look at California. I would argue thattheir laws limiting the AR-15 to 10 rounds with a bullet button put more of a difference between my M&P15 and their M&P15 than there is between my M&P15 and an M4. They have already taken what an AR-15 IS from Californians. You have to get people not to fear the 30 round magazine. Simply calling it a modern sporting rifle is fruitless.

__________________
686/M&P9 Pro/M&P15X/M&P15-22

If some of you can't figure out that public relations, and PC language is important in this fight, then I don't know what to tell you. I've yet to hear a single logical reason for why we shouldn't give an alternative to "assault weapons". I get it, some of you don't like to play at the same level as those that oppose us, it just doesn't make any sense to me - seeing as how that is where this fight is being played out. If it was up to me, for every time the words "assault weapon" were spoken on the floor of Congress by a non thinking representative, "modern sporting rifle" should be said twice by one who can. It can make a difference, unlike simply saying that you won't use PC terms or fight a PR war.

There does need to be PR war. The focus shouldn't be what the AR-15 is known by. More and more people now think that illegal immigrants need some path to citizenship, more and more sympathy for their situation. The change did not happen by calling them "undocumented workers". It came from stories of children being ripped from their deported mothers arms and families being broken apart. The image of who the illegal allien/undocumented worker is in the public mind changed, and with it the sentiment and how they need to be dealt with. Their image was humanized, de-villianized. Same with the gay rights movement - stories of individuals and couples saturating the media that personalized the message and brought out the humane aspect is what sways public opinion and discourse.

That's the type of change that needs to happen to AR-15's or Modern Sporting Rifles or whatever you want to call them. De-villianize them, humanize the owners. Change the focus from criminal use of guns to the sporting/self defense/competition aspect. What you call the rifle can play a part in it, but it's far from a wholistic solution. It's maybe one yard of the 100 needed for a touchdown, so to speak. Show people the amazing skill and talent that is in shooting competitions. Show the single mother who defended her child from a home invasion with an AR-15. Affect a change on the image of what a semi-automatic rifle means in the public eye and it won't matter what anyone calls it - assault rifle, modern sporting rifle or otherwise. My young nephew calls my M&P15 a "machine gun". Doesn't matter because he's not afraid of it.

__________________
686/M&P9 Pro/M&P15X/M&P15-22

YES! BTW, how is the vote being tabulated?

He who defines the terms, gets to direct the debate. Quite honestly, the appearance of traditional firearms hasn't changed much in 400 years. Largely because tradition is a strong force in the industry. The only areas where ergonomics has seriously affected firearms design have been in the esoteric target sports and military small arms.

Classic example: the pistol grip stock. A form of it is used in target and sniper rifles and the pure/AR form where a straight line stock is used to improve control of recoil. It's also a more ergonomic mating of the hand to the weapon. Yet, it's a "military feature" if it's on an "assault rifle". If you read the fine print in many proposed laws, the BS factor is recognized because pistol grip stocks on manually operated firearms are exempted.

We don't drive model T's, why should we be restricted to firearms designed in King Louis time? If we can use MSR to help define the debate and make the point to the general public that the AR type weapon is simply progress, fine and dandy.

I made the survey. It's as simple as it looks. Two options, yes and no with "do you like the term" as the question. Pretty straight forward with as much as an absence of bias as you can get. I should have left the survey open definitely, however.

When this thread started I was in a grey area, not really liking the term but wanting to be convinced of it's usefulness. Through discussion and thought I've arrived at a point where I'm not opposed to the term but certainly unconvinced of it's usefulness.

In all honesty, I feel the AR-15 is closer to an "assault rifle" than it is to a "modern sporting rifle" (opinions will vary). I'm not in anyway saying we should go on calling it an assault rifle, let's be clear about that. modern sporting rifle just doesn't seem an accurate description of what it is either, I think we should just call it what it is.

__________________
686/M&P9 Pro/M&P15X/M&P15-22

Wasn't the "AR" actually derived from Armalite who developed the platform originally (which was then bought by Colt?) Anyway, it seems that only the dumbass liberals think that "AR" means "assault rifle" (just like our dumbass Governor Abercrombie who says they deliver a "lethal spray of bullets".... gotta have a very, very fast finger to spray from a semi-auto).

I like all the terms that make Liberals uncomfortable. Evil Black Rifle, Assault Rifle, Evil Black Assault Rifle of Impending Doom, Destruction, and Mayhem. That last one is my favorite though.

While away from my booth at the range a lady started a conversation with "You are the one shooting the assault rife, right"?

I sez, "Nope, I'm the one shooting the Modern Sporting Rifle".

She sez, "What's the difference"?

I sez, "Terminology".

Actually the difference between an assault rifle and an assault weapon is that assault rifle is actually a defined term, meaning any rifle with selective fire capability. You aren't shooting an assault rifle (in all likelihood anyway) because your weapon can't fire on full auto.

The problem is that the main stream public can't tell the difference between "assault rifle" the thing they want to be banned, but has been since 1934, and assault weapon, a semi-automatic rifle that only fires once per trigger pull.

Its why the spraying bullets thing is so popular...

MSR doesn't do ANYTHING to clarify that situation.

Yeah, the fight is about PR, but naming them "Modern Sporting Rifles" doesn't make them sound less scary to the average schlub on the street (though it is better than assault weapon).

Truly, the real way to convert people to our cause is to take them out, and demystify the rifle and humanize the gun owner. All the time we spent arguing this could have been better spent reclaiming #gunsense (Moms Demand Action uses gunsense a lot. Everyone agrees that gunsense is a good idea, and if you disagree with MDA they argue that you are opposed to "gun sense." Of course, gun sense to them = no guns. Gun sense to me = muzzle control, keeping your finger off the trigger and so on.

Semi-automatic rifles are semi-automatic rifles. They aren't solely for assaulting (honestly they are far better defensively), they aren't solely for sporting.

I like "personal defense weapons" taken straight from the good ole' Department of Homeland Security. Or maybe Family Defense Rifles. (ooh, FDR's even steal the name of a certain political Icon held up as an example by some of those anti-gun crowd...)

You get 1000 people to call a duck a chicken and in the end it's still a duck. I'll stick with AR type.
If you want to call it something I suggest USR "Urban Sporting Rifle." That'll piss them off

__________________
Forum consigliere

We should call them teddy bears...

I fail to see how you can call a civilian version an "Assault Rifle" since it will not operate in full auto or the burst mode. You can buy several different rifles that will operate in semi auto. The opposition doesn't need any more ammunition against these rifles

How about "Freedom Protection Tool" that takes the icky gun reference out.

I say NO to guns with deliberately-contrived politically correct sounding names.

__________________
WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

But c'mon. It's hard to hate that scary looking "fluffy bundle of love"

I prefer "PDW" (Personal Defense Weapon) and it should be full auto. Where would I get such a crazy idea?

DHS has ordered thousands of PDWs, in full auto of course. "ARs" or "modern sporting rifles" to you and me, "assault weapons" to Feinstein, Biden, Bloomburg and the mainstream media, "PDWs" for up to 7000 rifles for use by civilian domestic components of the DHS, not the military.

I like PDW: it is personal and it is for defense along with recreation and fun. It is also a term developed and used by a large government agency and not the NRA. Who am I to argue with them? When will the anti-2A crowd along with Chris Matthews and Piers Morgan start using PDW? I mean, it is an official term, not something made up like "assault rifle" or even "modern sporting rifle" and if we all use the same term, there should be no confusion. Right?

Maybe we could use PDRFW.

I like PDW more than MSR. What would PDRFW stand for?

__________________
686/M&P9 Pro/M&P15X/M&P15-22

I'm GUESSING it would be Personal Defense Recreation and Fun Weapon from his description.

Exactly. I never use the term.

I think it crazy people have to come up with "politically correct" terms for a firearm. I can't wait for our Pez to be out of office and all this nonsense with bullet shortages and passing radical gun laws to be over with. I understand the fight over the 2nd Amendment will go on but some of the shenanigans going on is getting out of hand.

I think MSR is silly and reeks of PC. I call my two ARs "Black Rifles". If anyone wants to badmouth black rifles they risk being called racist.

The term is fine with me, what's the big deal? The term "modern sporting rifle" was just applied to the AR platform to partly soften the idea of them being called assault rifles and partly to simply explain why someone might want to own one, as opposed to why would someone want to own an assault rifle. It doesn't change the fact that your rifle is an AR, it's just a term to help some classify it's need. Call your personal rifle whatever you want, it can be both!!

I missed the vote, but count me as a "yes" for MSR.

"AR" has a bad rap, assault rifle in inaccurate.

So... do either of you call your rifle an MSR? does anybody you know use the term MSR to refer to their AR15 rifle? Have you EVER heard anybody at a range or place at which you otherwise shoot use the term MSR? Any employee of a LGS? (I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the answer is "no")

Now why do you suppose that is?

__________________
686/M&P9 Pro/M&P15X/M&P15-22

I understand that AR stands for Armalite Rifle.

mine are S&W M&P15.

I call them SPORT RIFLES............because that is what I use them for.

I call mine a black rifle. I am not and never have been PC.

Kent

__________________
USAF 1971 - 1978