Rastoff
US Veteran
Anyone using a piston type gas system in their AR?
If you are, do you feel it is better? Why or why not?
If you are, do you feel it is better? Why or why not?
Any of y'all have a piston kit?
- Thread starter Rastoff
- Start date
JaPes
Well-known member
Wish I could help you out. I did consider buying a Osprey Defense Gas Piston Retrofit Conversion Kit to try out. I also looked an an Adams Arms. What made me balk was that the gas piston kit isn't compatible with a majority of handguards and free float rail systems. Also, I didn't want to have to deal with the possibility of carrier tilt and having futz with even more parts to address it.
JaPes
Well-known member
Autococker07
US Veteran
Ive got one in a 5.45X39 carbine..... its ok, other than the special bolt (pads on the back for anti tilt) and bumper where the gas key would be on a std bolt. I bought it because I fire the Russian surplus 7n6 rounds in it, which are still corrosive. I would not bother with one for non-corrosive ammo.....
As an addendum, mine is an adams upper, and the hand guards do have to be hogged out on them to work......
As an addendum, mine is an adams upper, and the hand guards do have to be hogged out on them to work......
Last edited:
I remember reading an article that " some" AR's were developing cracks in the lower after kit was installed. I will try to find article and let you decide for yourself. Be Safe,
cyphertext
US Veteran
Rastoff, I have a sneaky suspicion that you enjoy the rabbit holes... 
Sorry, unable to find the article. I know it had to do with bolt tilt ( I realize that has been addressed in some kits ), but there was also the fact that receivers would crack because of the change in the line of the stress with the piston VS DI. It was prob all a bad dream!! Be Safe,
I have an Adams Arms Lite kit (pics) which has made shooting my rifle much more enjoyable, primarily because it has made cleaning my rifle much more enjoyable. I've got about 500 rounds through it since the piston install, and not a single problem yet. I'll be sure to let the community know if something goes wrong though
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
You've found me out! Well, maybe not so much that I enjoy the rabbit hole, but I'm a gun geek. I just love to learn about things I'm interested in. I've been off work for a while now with a broken leg. So, I'm sitting in front of this computer dreaming up new things to explore.Rastoff, I have a sneaky suspicion that you enjoy the rabbit holes...
This particular question came because I saw an Adams Arms kit for sale at a reasonable price. That got me thinking about the differences. So,...
About "bolt tilt", wouldn't any bolt do that? Not just the piston ones? I mean, both are basically pushed in the same place. So, I would expect the same issues or lack of issue in either design. Am I off base with that?
Lee in Quartzsite
Well-known member
I have an M&P15 PS (Piston) that is about 4 years old, easily have shot a couple thousand rounds through it, and never had any issues with it. There is no sign of "bolt tilt" in the buffer tube and the BCG looks like brand new. It is by far the best rifle I have ever owned. Some claim the piston system adds weight, and make it inaccurate. My piston cap, rod and spring weigh a measley 6 ounces and it will shoot Quarter size groups @ 100 yds all day long. Some of the accessories that people hang on the front of their AR's weigh a whole lot more that my piston assembly.
I have added a Geissele trigger, Magpul fore end, EOTech HWS that interchanges with a Nikon 3x9 Pro Staff scope.
Cleaning is a breeze...no carbon or fouling on the bolt whatsoever. Whatever residue is on the gas block wipes off with a rag and Hoppes 9. I would buy another one in a heartbeat, but S&W has discontinued making them. Many other manufacturer's are still making and selling piston AR's.
I have added a Geissele trigger, Magpul fore end, EOTech HWS that interchanges with a Nikon 3x9 Pro Staff scope.
Cleaning is a breeze...no carbon or fouling on the bolt whatsoever. Whatever residue is on the gas block wipes off with a rag and Hoppes 9. I would buy another one in a heartbeat, but S&W has discontinued making them. Many other manufacturer's are still making and selling piston AR's.
ChattanoogaPhil
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2009
- Messages
- 14,602
- Reaction score
- 20,622
As far as I know (and maybe something has changed since I have paid little attention to piston systems) there is no standard for a gas piston system. So you're turning your mil-spec rifle into a specialty parts rifle. More moving parts... more weight... no thanks.
JaPes
Well-known member
Lee because the OP was asking about a kit, I assumed that he was asking about a conversion kit.
I assume that factory piston driven AR-15's must be somehow different in the receiver or bolt carrier to counteract carrier tilt. I know the Ruger SR556's bolt carrier end is beveled. Stuff like that.
I assume that factory piston driven AR-15's must be somehow different in the receiver or bolt carrier to counteract carrier tilt. I know the Ruger SR556's bolt carrier end is beveled. Stuff like that.
Lee in Quartzsite
Well-known member
I should have mentioned that the Adams Arms kit is identical to what the S&W piston rifles have...I think they were actually supplied by Adams, but not certain.
As far as "Tilt" goes, the piston rod is in direct line with the bolt, so when it cycles the bolt it goes straight back in a horizontal line. Mine shows no evidence of tilt after 4 years of active shooting.
Their web site shows the same parts that are in my rifle:
Carbine Length Piston Kit
sgtsandman
US Veteran
Nothing wrong with a piston rifle if it came that way from the factory. If it didn't come that way, I would leave well enough alone. Just my two cents.
Customizing a firearm is not a bad thing but there are some things that are best left alone unless you are trying to prevent certain issues like the corrosive ammo mentioned above.
Customizing a firearm is not a bad thing but there are some things that are best left alone unless you are trying to prevent certain issues like the corrosive ammo mentioned above.
Maddmax
US Veteran
I highly agree. I DON'T DO KITS. I buy what I want for what it is suppose to actually be and actually designed to do what it was intended for.
Smitty357
Well-known member
Having a piston AR is like having a GI AK.
Dont fix what isnt borken.
Dont fix what isnt borken.
I have owned an Adams Arms piston upper which i ran on a M&P lower. No issues whatsoever. I now run PWS piston rifles. They are different in that they are a long stroke piston design (modeled after the AK-47) rather than short stroke design like Adams and most others. I have one in .223 wylde, one in 7.62x39, and one in .308. These rifles are amazing. I like the ability to adjust the gas for shooting suppressed and lots of different ammo. I also like the maintenance or cleaning intervals. I shoot and PWS even recommends several thousand rounds between cleaning. Never had an issue one.
Here's the deal:
If you want to convert your direct gas impingement system to a gas piston system, it is fairly easy to do. I am an apprentice to a master gunsmith, and never refer to myself as a "gunsmith", although he thinks I am
He does all the heavy lifting stuff (Like fitting, crowning, threading, etc.) whereas I do all the cleanings, replacement of broken parts, test firing, etc. So when I say "fairly easy to do", I mean from my point of view.
I would counsel the "average joe" against doing it (installing a conversion kit) because I have seen some really bunged-up jobs come into the shop, due to the work of "armchair gunsmiths" who watch YouTube and figure they're good to go. We charge them extra to fix their screwups, so be warned.
All that aside, I can tell you what converting your rifle will get you;
1. A cleaner running rifle. Since it no longer "poops where it eats", the whole upper receiver stays clean. The bolt stays clean. The firing pin stays clean. The only thing that still gets dirty is the bolt face and extractor (and the barrel, of course).
2. A cooler rifle. If you take the handguards off a D.I. rifle and shoot 5 or 6 rounds, you can light a match off the heat from the gas tube (try it, it is pretty neat). If you do that with a piston setup, you can put your hand on the piston rod. It's cold. The entire upper receiver stays cool, as well. Heck, there's no hot gas spraying into it anymore!
3. A more accurate rifle? Nope! The piston system won't change a thing. Sorry! The neat thing though, is that when I changed my rifle over to the piston system, it didn't affect my scope zero. The zero was still right on the money, one day to the next.
4. Some folks just have to have them, and some folks think they're stupid (because Eugene Stoner didn't design it that way!). I think both work great. If someone tries to tell you that "piston is better because it's more reliable", I don't buy it, unless they are making the claim that it's more reliable because it's cleaner. It is cleaner, but that difference (of reliability) wouldn't be readily apparent until you shot more than 1,000 rounds, and never cleaned your gun.
I like cleaning my guns. I find it relaxing. If you don't like cleaning your AR-15-style rifle and are tired of scraping carbon off and cleaning gunk out however, get a piston rifle upper or convert your D.I. upper to a piston system. It is a LOT cheaper to convert, and conversion kits are not all created equally.
If you want to convert your direct gas impingement system to a gas piston system, it is fairly easy to do. I am an apprentice to a master gunsmith, and never refer to myself as a "gunsmith", although he thinks I am
He does all the heavy lifting stuff (Like fitting, crowning, threading, etc.) whereas I do all the cleanings, replacement of broken parts, test firing, etc. So when I say "fairly easy to do", I mean from my point of view. I would counsel the "average joe" against doing it (installing a conversion kit) because I have seen some really bunged-up jobs come into the shop, due to the work of "armchair gunsmiths" who watch YouTube and figure they're good to go. We charge them extra to fix their screwups, so be warned.
All that aside, I can tell you what converting your rifle will get you;
1. A cleaner running rifle. Since it no longer "poops where it eats", the whole upper receiver stays clean. The bolt stays clean. The firing pin stays clean. The only thing that still gets dirty is the bolt face and extractor (and the barrel, of course).
2. A cooler rifle. If you take the handguards off a D.I. rifle and shoot 5 or 6 rounds, you can light a match off the heat from the gas tube (try it, it is pretty neat). If you do that with a piston setup, you can put your hand on the piston rod. It's cold. The entire upper receiver stays cool, as well. Heck, there's no hot gas spraying into it anymore!
3. A more accurate rifle? Nope! The piston system won't change a thing. Sorry! The neat thing though, is that when I changed my rifle over to the piston system, it didn't affect my scope zero. The zero was still right on the money, one day to the next.
4. Some folks just have to have them, and some folks think they're stupid (because Eugene Stoner didn't design it that way!). I think both work great. If someone tries to tell you that "piston is better because it's more reliable", I don't buy it, unless they are making the claim that it's more reliable because it's cleaner. It is cleaner, but that difference (of reliability) wouldn't be readily apparent until you shot more than 1,000 rounds, and never cleaned your gun.
I like cleaning my guns. I find it relaxing. If you don't like cleaning your AR-15-style rifle and are tired of scraping carbon off and cleaning gunk out however, get a piston rifle upper or convert your D.I. upper to a piston system. It is a LOT cheaper to convert, and conversion kits are not all created equally.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Using Flitz on nickel … and blue??
- Latest: Model29-26.5
-
-
-
