Any of y'all have a piston kit?

[Vic 103]

Check out this sight:Gas Piston Systems / Ingenuity At Work There are some good vids about the piston system and another about carrier tilt.
I got one in 7.62x39. I got the C.A.P.S. System because I wanted to be able to adjust the amount of gas my rifle gets. Some ammo is underpowered and some is not by having adjustable gas ports I can shoot any ammo with no short stroking.I figured a piston was the way to go because I wanted to shoot cheap dirty Russian Ammo. What sold me on the BRA system was the simplicity of it Plus you can dissamble and clean the whole system by removeing only one pin. Cleaning is a breeze. I have been having a lot of fun with this rifle.
At first I had two uppers and one lower. (My orginal M&P 5.56 DI rifle......and my new 7.62x39 piston upper. I have since built a new lower for the 7.62 upper. Now I have two AR's.

Here are some pics:

 

[gm272gs]

I use something decidedly more simple. It does not require replacing your gas block and can be done in less than 20 minutes. If you look at the first photo (with the handguards on), it is virtually indistinguishable from any other standard direct-impingement service rifle.

 

[gm272gs]

After shooting 50 rounds, my D.I. setup would have all kinds of crud in the upper receiver, along with some gritty crud in the lower receiver as well. The bolt and firing pin would both have built-up carbon, which would have to be scraped and brushed off. Now look at the parts after 160 rounds:

 

[gm272gs]

Here are the firing pin and bolt, after 160 rounds:

 

[Culina]

About "bolt tilt", wouldn't any bolt do that? Not just the piston ones? I mean, both are basically pushed in the same place. So, I would expect the same issues or lack of issue in either design. Am I off base with that?

Negative, on DI rifles, the bolt unlocks via gas pressure between the bolt and carrier, that's why it has piston rings. The gas key is just a conduit for the gas much like the gas tube.

My only experience with piston driven AR's has been with a couple of LWRC SPR rifles. They are built from the ground up as piston driven rifles and are very impressive. Like others have mentioned, the rifle run very clean compared to DI guns. They weigh a little more and have more moving parts so potentially more things to go wrong.

 

[gm272gs]

Bolt tilt has been an issue in the past. The M16 carrier I use, has a beveled rear to it. See photo, attached. In the foreground is a standard M16 carrier, the one in the rear is the one I use in my piston conversion.

 

[Maddmax]

After shooting 50 rounds, my D.I. setup would have all kinds of crud in the upper receiver, along with some gritty crud in the lower receiver as well. The bolt and firing pin would both have built-up carbon, which would have to be scraped and brushed off. Now look at the parts after 160 rounds:

Dont forget too. The piston bolt runs almost cold with very little heat built up.

 

[gm272gs]

I have other things to add now that I have run my piston system past the 1,000 round mark;

1. Since there is no hot gas bombarding the bolt, bolt carrier, and upper receiver anymore, everything stays clean and doesn't wear as much. Have you ever replaced your gas rings on your bolt? With a piston system, you don't even use gas rings. There's no friction inside the bolt carrier, because there aren't any piston rings to scrape on the inside of it anymore!

2. Less heat means less wear. The M16/M4/AR-15 service rifle has a published useful service life of 30,000 rounds. Change it to the right $300 gas piston system, and the service life can be doubled. Yes. You read that correctly. Doubled. With some parts, that number can triple or quadruple. For instance, bolt life is usually stated to be anywhere from 5k to 10k rounds. Barrels typically hold up to 15k rounds or more, and I once broke a lug off a bolt after 12,500 rounds. I wore out a bolt carrier (because i couldn't get even the largest piston rings to seal in it, anymore) after 18,000 rounds. That wear - mind you - was all with D.I. rifles.

3. Over 1,000 rounds with no failures. When my rifle was direct gas impingement, occasionally it would fail to cycle fully (short stroke) when it was dirty. Since putting in the piston system, I have never encountered a problem, even now that I clean it less than I used to. All I clean now is the bore and the bolt face. Nothing else ever gets dirty. I don't even have to take the bolt out of the carrier anymore.

You can't do much about the life of the barrel (except by not heating it up very much) but the piston system will extend the life of everything else by factors of 2, 3, or 4. I have been watching it, and am amazed.

Yeah okay, I have drunk the kool-aid.

I currently offer local LEO & Military personnel, a free installation of the Osprey Defense OPS-416 system, because I believe that it is the best one out there. I think that you'll hear very soon that USSOCOM thinks so, as well.

 

[JaPes]

I believe you gm272gs!

My only issue is that if I am going to own a piston operated rifle, I want one that was originally designed to be a piston gun not retrofitted to be one. It's sort of like the whole 1911's should all be .45 ACP as JMB designed it to be sort of thing. I'm weird like that.

I have considered two piston operated rifles chambered in 5.56 NATO: IWI Tavor & Sig 556Xi. Since they both cost a pretty penny, I'll be considering them for a long while.

 

[Smitty357]

DThe only piston driven rifle i own is the AK. Because it was designed that way and has many years proven itself reliable. The GI has also proven itself in the ARs since the 60's. Dont fix what isnt broken.

Its like adding DGI to ur AK. Why would u want to mess up something that runs so perfect.

 

[amazingflapjack]

gas cylinder=cleaner and more dependable-see Kurac.

 

[JaPes]

I'm did not mean to disparage the piston driven AR's. They displace the fouling to a piston and not back in the action, so the rifle isn't pooping where it eats. I get it. I just am a bit "meh" on the AR-15 right now. Too much tinkering and building took the "fun" out of it.

While I am looking at the Sig 556Xi and IWI Tavor, their cost is a bit tough to stomach. It's hard to save up and spend for another MSR chambered in 5.56 when I have two AR-15's that sling copper jacketed lead downrange like champs.

I'm going through the same thing with pistols. I own just one revolver. I own just one pistol chambered in .45 ACP, one in .40 S&W, and one in 10mm. I own just one bolt action rifle, and just one shotgun. I have some diversity in 9mm, but not in poly framed striker. I have a Glock 17 for my poly frame striker fired jollies. The rest are DA/SA alloy frame 9mm's.

I guess every firearms enthusiast goes through this.

 

[Rastoff]

Too much tinkering and building took the "fun" out of it.

What??? Sacrilege!!! Tinkering and building IS the fun. Well, shooting is fun too.

 

[JaPes]

The AR-15 was the gateway into a world of "rabbit hole" background knowledge. The AR-15 is one of the reasons I learned to reload / hand load ammo. Maybe it's AR-15 burnout.

 

[Rastoff]

Actually, I get the "burnout" concept. Spend enough time on any one thing and it can happen to anyone.

I have run the gamut. At heart I'm still a shotgun guy. I've probed the depths of all the shotgun rabbit holes. Then I became a defensive pistol shooter. Teach classes and everything. I've dabbled in the AR, but haven't jumped in with both feet yet. I want to do some more long range rifle stuff, but until my leg fully heals, that's a long walk.

It's not a bad idea to take some time away now and then.

 

[JaPes]

It's not a bad idea to take some time away now and then.

That's always good advice. I got commitments and responsibilities (financial and personal) that demand more attention lately. I'm starting a new job at the end of the month. <happy dance>

I'm working closely with my doctor to undo as much of the damage my bad eating and exercise habits caused. I could eat anything I wanted in my 20's. Went into "I'm not getting older" denial in my early to mid 30's. Been changing my eating and exercising habits over the past two years and am kicking it up a notch for the summer.

I love the "What if?" SD/HD topics that center around firearms. What I don't talk about is the physical demands of SD/HD in relation what I can and can't do. I can't go Red Dawn if I can't jog a mile without wanting to throw up. LOL.

/end thread hijack...

sorry OP.

 

[Rastoff]

I love the "What if?" SD/HD topics that center around firearms. What I don't talk about is the physical demands of SD/HD in relation what I can and can't do. I can't go Red Dawn if I can't jog a mile without wanting to throw up. LOL.

/end thread hijack...

sorry OP.

This is a very good point. It's a new subject that is rarely talked about. We should talk about it more when considering self-defense.

Besides, it's my thread and I'll hijack it if I want to.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

This is a very good point. It's a new subject that is rarely talked about. We should talk about it more when considering self-defense.

Besides, it's my thread and I'll hijack it if I want to.

Oh yeah...

There is one particularly obnoxious pile of human lard at the club that I had the unfortunate opportunity to run into at the plinking range not that long ago. He endlessly jabbers about being prepared for survival and how he laughs at those who aren't. While sucking on a cig and chugging down a Coke he lapsed into a coughing fit. When he was able to catch his breath I asked him if he was prepared to survive a 10min walk on a hot summer day. I don't think he'll be boring me with his survival babble again.

 

[Rastoff]

When he was able to catch his breathe I asked him if he was prepared to survive a 10min walk on a hot summer day. I don't think he'll be boring me with his survival babble again.

 

[bhayles]

This is a very good point. It's a new subject that is rarely talked about. We should talk about it more when considering self-defense.

Besides, it's my thread and I'll hijack it if I want to.

Everyone sees self defense and "prepping" differently...different opinions on just what they are and different physical abilities to "do stuff".

I'm 59 with 4 heart attacks in my past, a chest full of steel keeping various coronary arteries open, have emphysema and diabetes, and horribly abused my body for the first 50-55 years of my life. I'd have problems with ChattanoogaPhil's 10 minute walk on a hot humid day. No, my days of being physically able to be a warfighter are long past, however...

Taking care of myself and mine on my little piece of land IS possible though, and except for electricity we are pretty self sufficient...and, if the time ever came, I have things set up where I could do a pretty good job of defending it.

Home defense...self-sufficiency...prepping...all happen far more above the neck than below it.