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Iron Sights Aperture Question

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rjbFL

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Thanks in advance.

I put Iron Sight on my rifle and my range session went well. Zeroed at 25 yards and then at 50 yards. I was very happy.

On the internet I saw that the small Aperture, which was the one I used, was for 300 yards and over. It must be true, it was on the Internet.

So, at my last session, I switched to the large Aperture and I had very big groups. I had a hard time finding the front sight.

What am I doing wrong?
 
Not to be a smart a**, but didn't they teach that in the army?

Concentrate on the front sight and your mind will center it in the aperture. As we get older, it becomes more difficult for the front sight to be in focus with the large aperture, so that may be part of the problem. I usually end up using the small aperture all the time.

If you follow the internet and zero at 25 meters, the rifle will be zero'd at 300 meters and 4-5" high at 100. I find it make more sense to zero for the range we expect to be shooting, or a couple of inches high at 100 at the most.
 
I get bigger groups with the bigger aperture too.

I have my rifle zeroed at 100 using the small aperture; and only use the big aperture at very close range, where precision is not as necessary.
 
You're not doing anything wrong. You're practicing, learning your weapon, and identifying problems, either with the rifle or yourself. That's how you get better.

When you zeroed, did you use the large or small aperture? What rifle are you shooting? If you shoot well with the small aperture, leave it up, no harm no foul. I did over 20 years in the Army and honestly don't remember ever using the large aperture. In a combat situation, you really aren't thinking about flipping the sights back and forth, and probably don't have time to fool with it.

For practice sake, put the large aperture up and do some drills bringing the sights to your eye. Peep style sights are effective because our brain causes our eye to seek the center of the hole. If you're bringing the rifle to bear the same every time, the front sight pin should always appear in the center of that aperture. If not, practice, practice, practice.

As for the groups opening, not unusual at all. Imagine an ice cream cone, the top being the large aperture, the bottom being the small. You have more potential for error with that larger hole than with the smaller one.

Practice a lot, good luck and good shooting.
 
I use small aperture only as well. I also use 50 yards for my zero. With 50 yard zero, you will be within 2 inches high or low all the way out to 200 yards.
 
Thanks MichiganScott Thanks Waywatcher Thanks gunny4053 Thanks cyphertext

It was over 50 years ago that I trained on the M1 in the Army. I can only remember one aperture. Later we were issued the M14, again one aperture?

I will stick with the small aperture and practice.

Since we held our hand over the rifle stock, my cheek would rest against my thumb giving me the best distance from the rear sight for a good picture of the front sight. And the front sight was further away from the rear sight so I believe it was easier to focus on.

I'll work on the focus part of this.

Again, much thanks for the replies and information.
 
One thing we were taught in training with the M4, is to adjust the stock so that your nose is alway just touching the charging handle, that way you have a fixed point to set your weld. They also have us use the large aperture. This is on a short range with simulated long distance targets at 75 meters. A true 500 meter range may require using the small aperture.

Since I only plan on using my iron sights at 100 yards or less, I have them sighted in and set up for that in mind.
 
rjbFL said:
Thanks MichiganScott Thanks Waywatcher Thanks gunny4053 Thanks cyphertext

It was over 50 years ago that I trained on the M1 in the Army. I can only remember one aperture. Later we were issued the M14, again one aperture?

I will stick with the small aperture and practice.
Click to expand...

Touche... I was wondering about that, too. Looks like I need to broaden my thinking.:o

The large aperture was intended for use from 0-200 m. The targets are closer so you "need" the faster, larger hole. That's the thinking anyway. In practice, I never used it except in night or NBC fire. The small aperture will work fine regardless of range. These days, most every Army rifle has a CCO (Aimpoint) or ACOG, so it really doesn't matter.
 
sgtsandman, one more question please?

Later, when using a red dot - nose just touching the charge handle?
 
rjbFL said:
sgtsandman, one more question please?

Later, when using a red dot - nose just touching the charge handle?
Click to expand...

With a red dot, a consistent cheek weld is not as important, but I still practice with nose to charging handle. Get into good habits so that you can use both, the red dot and the irons.
 
rjbFL said:
sgtsandman, one more question please?

Later, when using a red dot - nose just touching the charge handle?
Click to expand...

+1 to cyphertext. Not required but part of consistent shooting is doing the same thing every time if possible. The same thing if you use a scope. Set it up so your eye relief puts you in the same spot as your cheek weld for the iron sights. Repetition is key and it helps iron out you mistakes and bad habits.
 
rjbFL said:
On the internet I saw that the small Aperture, which was the one I used, was for 300 yards and over. It must be true, it was on the Internet.
Click to expand...
Yes, the small aperture is for longer distance. There is a reason for that.

The large aperture is for quick acquisition and close in shots. Thus, the precision is not as important. The small aperture is for long distance. Thus, the apparent size will be the same because the target will be smaller.

If you look closely at the sight, you'll see that the center of the two apertures is at different heights. This is to correct for bullet drop at long distance. So, if you zero your gun at 50 yards, you'll be just about right on at 200 with the large aperture and a few inches low at 300. Then switch to the small aperture for longer distance and you'll still be right on target.

In the end it doesn't matter. If you sighted in with the small, then use the small for everything.

This is one reason I like this rear sight:
p_100003702_1.jpg

The aperture is even smaller than the standard sight and there's only one. So, no confusion. Also, it has the switch for longer shots. Sight your gun in at 50 yards with this one and you're good all the way out to 600.
 
Thanks cyphertext. I honestly had no idea until you said that. It doesn't say on the top and I got it with an upper I bought a while back.

I like it, but will only use it in extreme cases. My eyes are not what they used to be so, the EOTech is the primary sighting system for me.
 
rjbFL said:
sgtsandman, one more question please?

Later, when using a red dot - nose just touching the charge handle?
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply. I've been deployed and government computers block forums. The nose touching isn't required but repetition is a "best practice". Try to do it the same way all the time to build a "muscle memory". You practice enough a certain way all the time, it eventually becomes second nature and you don't even need to think about it, you just do it.
 
Rastoff said:
Yes, the small aperture is for longer distance. There is a reason for that.

The large aperture is for quick acquisition and close in shots. Thus, the precision is not as important. The small aperture is for long distance. Thus, the apparent size will be the same because the target will be smaller.

If you look closely at the sight, you'll see that the center of the two apertures is at different heights. This is to correct for bullet drop at long distance. So, if you zero your gun at 50 yards, you'll be just about right on at 200 with the large aperture and a few inches low at 300. Then switch to the small aperture for longer distance and you'll still be right on target.

In the end it doesn't matter. If you sighted in with the small, then use the small for everything.

This is one reason I like this rear sight:
p_100003702_1.jpg

The aperture is even smaller than the standard sight and there's only one. So, no confusion. Also, it has the switch for longer shots. Sight your gun in at 50 yards with this one and you're good all the way out to 600.
Click to expand...

It may have just been the particular site I was using but I didn't like it. The aperture would not stay down when using the red dot. It was a military weapon, so I'm sure it hadn't gotten the attention it should compared to a personal weapon.
 
sgtsandman said:
It may have just been the particular site I was using but I didn't like it. The aperture would not stay down when using the red dot. It was a military weapon, so I'm sure it hadn't gotten the attention it should compared to a personal weapon.
Click to expand...

That is one of the weaknesses of the Matech site. There is a little nub that catches the aperture arm and holds it down. Once that nub gets some wear on it from flipping the site up and down, it no longer holds the arm in the down position.
 
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