The 1:8 5R barrel on your VTAC II is different than the 1:8 5R barrel that was on the Sport... Made of different grades of steel.

They still make both varieties, just they don't use one on the Sport. Now the 15T is the only one that I am aware of that comes with the 1:8 5R barrel made from 4140 steel. The MOE Mid and VTAC II have 4150 steel.

What do the different grades of steel mean? Absolutely nothing to 99.9% of us. 4150 has just a little more carbon.

I will let you all know what happens next...

Hi Folks:

I’m not okay with the February 16 response from “Rob” on several of points, so I’m not hesitating to contact you as I require further assistance:

· It is not relevant that my mislabeled/mis-advertised rifle’s barrel “meets the same acceptance standards” as the original 5R 1:8 twist rifling – the labeling on the rifle said it was the 5R 1:8 which is what I wanted and was paying for.

· It is not relevant what agencies have tested and use barrels like my mislabeled/mis-advertised rifle’s barrel.

· The assertion by a premier firearms manufacturer that “We are unable to change out barrels” is simply not believable. If the statement had been “We don’t think this is a big deal, and don’t want to bother with it”, I would not be satisfied, though I would believe it.

· You “…are happy to have assisted you to the best of our ability today”? Good grief – no assistance was rendered, and I don’t think the response was to the best of S&Ws ability.

· The response fails to address the mislabeled/mis-advertised rifle; I do not think there was any purposeful plan to mislabel/mis-advertise, but the practical impact on me is that I paid for what I wanted, and got something else.

I am not satisfied and would like a further review and real answers.

Thank you.

I wouldn't get in a twist about it if it shot straight, but that's just me.

This is proof that most people who are happy with something never say much, but one disgruntled customer usually will tell everyone they know.

For what it's worth - If I were in a position of any importance at Smith & Wesson - I would have just replaced your barrel.

C'est La Vie.

gm272gs - I appreciate your view about "not getting twisted about it" (and others have posted similarly)...and certainly agree with your "If I were in a position of any importance at Smith & Wesson - I would have just replaced your barrel." Operationally, I could probably never tell. That said, if I want a 5R, I want a 5R (I own one S&W and one Remington now). Why do we buy S&W? You guessed it - because we want S&W. Little things matter to me in firearms, and I think many are the same. I recently passed up a great deal on a Springfield 1911 'cause it had ugly/unnecessary "target" sights...not what I wanted. Does a 7 v. 6 shot matter so some S&W revolver fans - sure, both work fine, but one or the other is a "deal killer" (PS - I prefer 6, and old school spur hammers). S&W gets my business because I trust their products and their quality, and when a firearm absolutely, positively must work - it's one of my S&Ws I depend on.

I hope they will make this right.

I'm going to grab a beer and watch funny TV now.....I'll be back.

What is going to make you happy? If you say "re-barrel the rifle", then based on the outcome from others, prepare to be less than pleased. S&W will probably offer to refund your money... will that make you happy?

When I first considered getting a AR 15 a friend showed me his Sport and explained the details of the 1:8 5R barrel. I was quite impressed with the Sport in general. So I did what I always do whenever I consider spending hundreds of dollars. I went online and did some research and read numerous online reviews. Took only a short time online to learn that the Sport now came with the 1:9 barrel. So... I did some more research and decided that the 1:9 barrel would not be a deal breaker for me and picked up my Sport about a week later. The paper handguard covers were not on the rifle I purchased but had they been and shown it to have the 1:8 5R that would have thrown up a red flag for me and I would have looked closer at what I was considering to purchase. Why? Because I had done my research and knew that this was no longer the barrel on the Sport. When you purchased your Sport there was two people that made a mistake. The guy at S&W that put the wrong paper covers on the rifle and you for not paying attention to what you were buying. Ever heard of the phrase "Buyer Beware"? I don't mind contacting customer support at any business that I feel that I have a legitimate complaint, but on this issue you are just as much to blame ( in my opinion), and if you wanted a rifle with 5R you should have done a little research and bought a rifle with 5R instead of the Sport...

I would think the customer, some of which go window shopping, should be able to trust whats written on the label. If its wrong, it shouldbe fixed. Im a big researcher myself, but ii woildnt consider it my fault if the manhfacturer mislabrled.

If they no longer make the barrel they can't replace it. If they replace it with a barrel from one of their more expensive model that still uses the 5R rifling, it would no longer be a Sport and they would set a precedent. It's cheaper to irritate a couple of customers.

Ask for your money back.

Yea. Something. I think the OP ended up with offer of money back or some t shirt. He seemed happy enough.

Might want to consider contacting S&W and asking if they would be willing to take the gun back at the price you paid on a trade for a model that has the barrel that you desire. With you, of course, paying the difference.

Hopefully you haven't put a few hundred rounds through it yet.

You are thinking of the other guy who got a rifle case... The OP has not received anything, but I am not sure what would make him happy at this point other than a barrel change.

I think that is the rub, as they do still make the barrel. It is on the 15T... they just no longer put the barrel on the Sport.

ETA... Looks like I might be wrong on this... the website shows 1:8 twist, but no mention of 5R rifling on the 15T.

ETA again... S&W customer service confirmed that the 15T does still have the 1:8, 5R 4140 barrel... so they do still make them.

I received an email this morning to provide info so they can send a shipping label & box. I did so. They want to evaluate it...but did not say what they intend to do beyond that. I thanked them and will send it back ASAP.

Interesting... ship it back to us so that we can say "yep, we put a 1:9 twist barrel on it"...

Re: OP. Don't fault you. You have every right to expect the item described to be the item in the box you bought. No reason you should be held accountable for S&W failing to make themselves clear. Hope this matter is resolved to your satisfaction. Sincerely. bruce.

__________________
<><

Three pages. 115, make that 116, posts. Almost two months of suspense, and no solution to the original problem. Whatever the final outcome may be, I doubt that it will be influenced by what is said in this thread.

**** posts* like this one do nothing. I am trying to keep the S&W enthusiast community informed; I think that's why forums like this exist - info exchange, etc., right? S&Ws invitation to send it back on their dime to "evaluate" is a step in the process. I'm okay with that. They will let me know their thoughts, and it will go from there.

*now if that post was meant as a funny, okay, it could be read as kinda funny...but that's what all those dang smiley faces are for! See there - I even used one...and it's my rifle with the issue! Doh!

Where is someone with a 15T who can tell us what it says on the barrel?

__________________
~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

Well, it was meant as kinda funny, and folks on the board who know me know that...

However, what is there to evaluate? Do you think that S&W is not aware of what barrel they are currently putting on the Sport? Do you think yours is the only one that left the factory as a 1:9 barrel? You aren't even the only one that had this complaint on this board. At this stage in the game, S&W is aware that they mislabeled some rifles, and they are aware of what they have offered other customers... either a refund, or some magazines, or a rifle case, etc. for your inconvenience if you choose to keep it anyway.

If I were S&W I would offer to refund your money or toss in some free goodies, but I would not swap barrels. The label was wrong, big deal, it happens all the time. If you don't like it, return and get something else.

__________________
Paul

In an ideal world, the product label should correctly describe the item you are buying. We don't live in an ideal world. I'm not apologizing for S&W. They made a mistake. They're a big company, not some small-fry shop. They should have the manpower and budget to ensure their firearms are correctly labeled for retail sale.

I also believe that it is my responsibility to fully inspect and ensure that what is in front of me is exactly what I want to buy. I take the time to inspect (to the best of my ability and within the rules of the firearms dealer) a firearm before sign the 4473 and hand over cash.

__________________
-John

Picked up my new Sport yesterday, 03/09/15, and...

It has the handguard label proclaiming - Accurate 1 in 8" Twist, 5R Rifling - but the barrel is stamped 1 in 9".

I knew about the barrel change from research, prior to purchase, but was surprised to see the handguard label upon inspection.

None of this surprises me. There are probably a lot of guns still out there mislabeled.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

I received a call from Smith and Wesson this morning and the representative and I talked over everything S&W and I had already jabbered about in email. We got to the point where he said he had taken the matter to his supervisor and she told him they could not swap the barrel. I again expressed my view that it wasn't a matter of could not but one of would not. I told him there must be something they can do because they produce them by the thousands.

I then suggested the idea of swapping my upper with that of the 15T which is still made with the 5R barrel. I suggested that was a reasonable solution and we could negotiate how to handle the price difference. He said he had not discussed that option with his supervisor but he would and then get back to me.

now that is not an ideal solution for me because I don't care about a dust cover or forward assist but I'm just trying to work something out

And holy toledo I think you just got S&W to admit for sure the 5R melonite barrel still exists.

__________________
~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

I doubt they will do this as they have recorded the configuration from the factory based on the serial number. As picky as the ATF is on recording serial numbers, and those matching the factory records... just seems like too much red tape.

If they allow you to pay an additional cost, I bet that you get a whole different rifle, not just a different upper.

This is getting stupid i have one of each , they shoot the same, enough said !

I agree with JaPes. I believe I said something similar on page 1 of this thread. It will be interesting to see S&W's response.

The only thing "stupid" here are worthless posts like yours. You certainly are free to have your view and express it (politely might be nice), but bashing me for my view is...well, stupid.

I apologize buddy! I had a bad day at work, no reason to take it out on you ...but it's getting better as I'm cooking corned beef for the family and sipping a black & tan.

Listen all, I know my view/"plight" may not mesh with your own, and that's cool. I'm just trying to be part of the community and offer my experiences. I've not read most of the other posts as they are not a means to my end - though I appreciate the interest this has generated. What I've not shared is this:

When I bought the mislabeled rifle...I actually bought two! And I have an older 5R one also. I sucked it up on the 2nd new one as it was not mislabeled, and that was on me. Am I happy with it, yes - I've modded it a bit and love it as much as my original 5R version. But I thought it too was a 5R...but that one is my responsibility.

I will let you know how things progress...or don't.

My M&P 15T is roll marked "5.56 NATO 1/8 5R". Bought it new about 9 months ago.

Said the dead horse.... "Stop beating me".

So I nudged them again via email after about a week with no contact. Asked them to "re-consider swapping the barrel and call it a day" v. working something out on a 15T upper. I got a call today; they are offering a complete 15T in exchange at a discount (but still +cash on my end). They'd keep my rifle, ship the new one to a local FFL, and the swap-a-roo would be kosher with DOJ/ATFE even though different SN, model, etc. I told the rep I didn't really need/want all the extra do-das but to let me ponder and we'll reconnect in a few days.

So...I've got some pondering to do...

What is there to ponder? They are basically agreeing to what you asked for... swap Sport for 15T. I can't believe this has drug on for 3 months.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Why would there be an issue with serial numbers? You are swapping one complete rifle for another...unless I missed something.

And if I were you, I'd jump on the 15T swap, you are getting a rifle worth a few hundred dollars more.

__________________
Still carrying my S&W 642

He asked them about just swapping uppers... that is where the serial number part came in.

And also, it isn't a straight swap... it is extra cash on his end. But, he did ask them to swap uppers and let him pay the difference, so I don't see how this is any different.

Of course, the fact that this has drug out for 3 months could mean we are being trolled too...

Just re-read his last post, he was jumping back and forth on 2 points. I saw now that it would require some "cash" from him. Still, if they are discounting the T a good amount, why not jump on it.

__________________
Still carrying my S&W 642

Some broken hearts never mend,
Some memories never end,
Some horses never die,
And some people just can't decide.

good grief a lot of folks sure like to run their mouths and judge. if you're tired of how long this has dragged out, blah blah, yap yap, then please don't keep reading and go thread-**** somewhere else.

they want another $250 and that's the part I'm pondering.

If you can spare the $250, just do it. Move on.

You sure are snappy for a guy with 50 posts, mostly about your woes with S&W...

Others have solved this issue to their satisfaction with a single phone call, yet you are going on 3 months... would you not question this if you were reading it?

Yep, or return it for your money back, or agree to keep it for some extra magazines... Not a life altering decision... should be fairly simple.

It would almost be worth passing the hat to help this cat out just to be able to put this thread to rest.... I for one am tired of seeing it....

So let's assume you paid in the range of $600 for your Sport, if you add the $250 and get the T, that's all in for $850. The T's are going for right around $1000 on Gunbroker and larger web sites. I'd say that's a good enough deal to do it.

__________________
Still carrying my S&W 642

The only thing that could make this thread better is if they sent a 15T with the 1/9 barrel (and no 5R label).

this thread has been interesting to read. I feel like S&W is a little slow in the communication department, but judging from the offer they made to OP and the other guy who got the free rifle bag, it seems like they do what they can to make the customer happy. Whatever you decide to do OP, it seems like you have been treated fairly and in good faith, even if you did have to pester them a bit to get those results.

This^ .........l

Take the T upper, and when it comes in I'll trade you one of my 1/8 5R uppers and a Bushnell 3x9x40 scopes for it. Problem solved.

__________________
M&P9/9C/Shieldx2/Sportx2/15-22

Okay, that there made me laugh!