Primary Arms MD-ADS (red dot)

I bought one of these a while ago. I started a thread and detailed some things both good and bad. You can read about it here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...icro-dot-md-ads-2.html?highlight=Primary+Arms

Well, it's been almost exactly a year since I last installed a battery:


The optic has been on this whole time at a middle setting. I'm happy to announce that the dot is still on. What this means for me is that it is good enough for at least a year. I'm going to let this one run until it dies.

I feel that any optic used for self-defense needs to be always on. This way there are no buttons to fumble with when in an adrenaline charged situation. This optic suits that requirement. You can leave it on 24/7 and not have to worry about it.

If you read the other thread you'll see I had some issues with it. Primary Arms stood behind their product and fixed it free of charge.

Two things of interest. Originally I was concerned about how long the rubber lens caps would last. I'm happy to report that they have held up nicely and are still going strong. If you look closely at the picture though, you'll see that the battery compartment gasket has cracked. I live in a dry area so this is not that surprising to me. Some Vaseline probably would have prevented that. I'll contact PA and see if I can get another. It's not cracked all the way through, but it should be replaced.


It is my opinion that this is probably the best of the lower end red dots. Still, if you want something to really rely on, get a Trijicon or Aimpoint. I have a Trijicon MRO that I prefer and will give a review of that after a while.

Good stuff to know. I'd call that pretty darn good service from a lower end/price point sight. Glad you posted this.

The kind of post that helps us all. Thanks.

With this news, it appears to me that you could buy one of these, torture test it like crazy and if it survives, put a new, quality battery in it, mount it on your rifle, and call it good for home defense.



Thoughts?

Don't use Vaseline on the o ring, it will ruin it. Look for silicone grease. Plumbers grease is an option. @ $2 a tube. Just a swipe.

Just wanted to add the MD-RBGII for $90 is also an awesome sight, 1000hrs runtime and has been 100% reliable for me.

cyphertext said:

With this news, it appears to me that you could buy one of these, torture test it like crazy and if it survives, put a new, quality battery in it, mount it on your rifle, and call it good for home defense.



Thoughts?

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Maybe. It all depends on your level of risk comfort. Mine failed without a torture test. The adjustments quit working. I didn't over adjust it. At least I didn't feel any increased resistance which would indicate reaching the end of the range. I don't know why it failed. Sure, they replaced it, but what if that had happened when I needed it most?

arnoob said:

Just wanted to add the MD-RBGII for $90 is also an awesome sight, 1000hrs runtime and has been 100% reliable for me.

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There are a lot of decent optics out there. However, let's at least keep this thread to sights that have comparable specs. 1,000 hours is less than 42 days while 50,000 hours is 5.7 years. They are not in the same ballpark. One of the main reasons for buying a MD-ADS is that you can leave it on all the time. I'm sure the MD-RBG II is a decent optic, but it's not in this class.

Even including the MD-ADS in the same class as a Trijicon MRO or Aimpoint T-1 is a stretch, but at least they have the same specs.

The more I see about PA optics, the better they sound as long as one keeps perspective on them. A good buy for the money optic and not a top end piece. I certainly want to get some for my rifles.

Rastoff said:

Maybe. It all depends on your level of risk comfort. Mine failed without a torture test. The adjustments quit working. I didn't over adjust it. At least I didn't feel any increased resistance which would indicate reaching the end of the range. I don't know why it failed. Sure, they replaced it, but what if that had happened when I needed it most?

Click to expand...

But if I recall, you switched it between a few different firearms and had to re-zero... if it is left alone after torture tests to insure reliability, I would think it would be ok. You are correct though, it does depend on each person's level of comfort.

Personally for me, if I heated it, froze it, threw it down the stairs, etc. like in the videos online, then mounted it on my rifle and left it on for a year, and it remained zeroed every time I took it to the range, I would have faith in it.

I recently decided to try a "budget" red dot, I went with the Holosun 515C. It has the solar panel, but if enough light isn't available it automatically switches to battery power which offers 50k hours on the 2MOA dot and 20k hours on the circle dot. I haven't had it long enough to give a real review, but it seems well made and I really like the circle dot option. The only minor thing I noticed was the finish, it came looking worse straight out of the box than some of my Aimpoints that have been mounted on my rifles for years. I will report back after enough rounds and time to give it a meaningful review.

cyphertext said:

But if I recall, you switched it between a few different firearms and had to re-zero...

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Indeed. It spent time on two ARs and a shotgun. However, it's not unique in this respect. I've moved several optics around and none of them failed.

cyphertext said:

Personally for me, if I heated it, froze it, threw it down the stairs, etc. like in the videos online, then mounted it on my rifle and left it on for a year, and it remained zeroed every time I took it to the range, I would have faith in it.

Click to expand...

I agree with this too, but only to a point. This question comes up all the time; when is the level of testing enough? Yeah, if I cooked it, froze it, banged it around and it still worked, I might feel OK with using it. But the question would be always in the back of my mind, would one more whack be the one that disabled it?

So, for ultimate in reliability I go with statistics. Trijicon and Aimpoint have thousands of optics that have survived real combat. More than that, they've survived the soldiers that carried them. I've worked for the military for a long time and can tell you, if it survives everyday use from a military member, it's tough. These numbers give me confidence in EVERY Trijicon or Aimpoint, not just the one I hit with a hammer.

Rastoff said:

Indeed. It spent time on two ARs and a shotgun. However, it's not unique in this respect. I've moved several optics around and none of them failed.


I agree with this too, but only to a point. This question comes up all the time; when is the level of testing enough? Yeah, if I cooked it, froze it, banged it around and it still worked, I might feel OK with using it. But the question would be always in the back of my mind, would one more whack be the one that disabled it?

So, for ultimate in reliability I go with statistics. Trijicon and Aimpoint have thousands of optics that have survived real combat. More than that, they've survived the soldiers that carried them. I've worked for the military for a long time and can tell you, if it survives everyday use from a military member, it's tough. These numbers give me confidence in EVERY Trijicon or Aimpoint, not just the one I hit with a hammer.

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I don't disagree with you at all, but for those on a budget that doesn't allow for Trijicon, or even Aimpoint... And if you are only going to trust what GI Joe abuses... well, you are on the wrong forum!

cyphertext said:

...but for those on a budget...

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Yep, if you're forced to rely on a cheaper optic, this is a good one. Honestly, considering my vision doesn't allow effective use of iron sights, if I only had $200 for a red dot, this would be it. I actually think it's going to be reliable for 99% of those that buy it.

And just for the record, I'm not a "if the military uses it, it must be good" kind of person. I only mentioned that because it's a statistical point that supports the reliability claims.

Rastoff said:

Yep, if you're forced to rely on a cheaper optic, this is a good one. Honestly, considering my vision doesn't allow effective use of iron sights, if I only had $200 for a red dot, this would be it. I actually think it's going to be reliable for 99% of those that buy it.

And just for the record, I'm not a "if the military uses it, it must be good" kind of person. I only mentioned that because it's a statistical point that supports the reliability claims.

Click to expand...

I know you aren't... just poking a little fun...

Rastoff said:

I bought one of these a while ago. I started a thread and detailed some things both good and bad. You can read about it here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...icro-dot-md-ads-2.html?highlight=Primary+Arms

Well, it's been almost exactly a year since I last installed a battery:

The optic has been on this whole time at a middle setting. I'm happy to announce that the dot is still on. What this means for me is that it is good enough for at least a year. I'm going to let this one run until it dies.

I feel that any optic used for self-defense needs to be always on. This way there are no buttons to fumble with when in an adrenaline charged situation. This optic suits that requirement. You can leave it on 24/7 and not have to worry about it.

If you read the other thread you'll see I had some issues with it. Primary Arms stood behind their product and fixed it free of charge.

Two things of interest. Originally I was concerned about how long the rubber lens caps would last. I'm happy to report that they have held up nicely and are still going strong. If you look closely at the picture though, you'll see that the battery compartment gasket has cracked. I live in a dry area so this is not that surprising to me. Some Vaseline probably would have prevented that. I'll contact PA and see if I can get another. It's not cracked all the way through, but it should be replaced.


It is my opinion that this is probably the best of the lower end red dots. Still, if you want something to really rely on, get a Trijicon or Aimpoint. I have a Trijicon MRO that I prefer and will give a review of that after a while.

Click to expand...

When you say you had "a had some issues with it" that PA fixed, was it the same issues noted in this buyer's guide Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot Review / HONEST BUYER'S GUIDE - YouTube Re issues with the mount & glare/bad reflection or was it something else ? Please advise as I'm quite interested in the optic. Thanks

South Pacific Wesson said:

When you say you had "a had some issues with it" that PA fixed, was it the same issues noted in this buyer's guide...

Click to expand...

Did you read the thread I linked in the OP? RE: Glare- This is always an issue with any optic. I have tested this very complaint with the MD-ADS, an ACOG and the MRO. All of them exhibit some glare when there is a bright light source at your back. However, none were so bad that the optic couldn't be used.

I should also mention that each optic had to be held in such a way that the bright light could shine at an acute angle back at the operator's eye. When mounted normally, this is impossible. My conclusion is that when used as mounted on a typical rifle, this glare issue is a non-issue.

Just to come complete circle, today marks one year. The MD-ADS still works on all brightness levels. I'm going to continue to let the current battery run until it fails. However, if I were going to rely on this optic, I would replace the battery every year.


Earlier I mentioned the cracked gasket. Well, I contacted Primary Arms about it and got this response:

Douglas,

Unfortunately at this time we don't retail that item. That said if you confirm you're shipping address we are happy to get you out a replacement.

V/R


--
Nick

Click to expand...

That was last Tuesday. I replied with my address and yesterday received a package in the mail. It included two gaskets, a Winchester pin and about 10 stickers from various manufacturers.

They could have told me to get size X o-ring from the local hardware. I would not have complained had they done so. However, they went the extra mile to make sure I had the correct part. It's this kind of service that makes them a great company. This optic is not an H-1 or MRO, but it's as close as you can get without buying the real thing.

Thanks for the good information. I've been pleased with mine and used it on a couple of rifles..., I think I may leave it on like you and see how reliable it is...



Currently is sitting atop my M&P 15.

Rastoff, Sounds like a pretty good unit where ever you check and batteries are pretty cheap. Good maintenance makes almost everything more dependable. Thanks for the update on the service.

Great to hear about the Primary Arms customer service. Their micro red dots are well thought of in some of the bullseye pistol circles. Granted a .22LR isn't a brutally recoiling round, but size/weight and holding a zero are crucial on a competition pistol.