Disabled1
US Veteran
In those illustrations I see the M16A2 has the round hand guards. That's very interesting because, my M16A2 had the triangular hand guards. 
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How to remove the flash hider
- Thread starter swons73
- Start date
sgtsandman
US Veteran
In those illustrations I see the M16A2 has the round hand guards. That's very interesting because, my M16A2 had the triangular hand guards.
I think it has to do when the rifles were built. I'm not sure on that though. It may have been a retrofit thing on older rifles. I know the ones I've carried all had round hand guards.
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Rastoff
US Veteran
Well then the military got ripped because it doesn't.
When I was in basic, they gave us a typical military briefing on the M-16. I remember it because it was straight out of the movies. They made two points that stood out to me. First was the purpose of the little wings on either side of the front sight. He told us they were there for protection and not to be used for an aiming aid. He drove his point home by slamming the front sight on the table really hard. Second, and not really germane to this discussion, was his assertion that the rifle was originally invented to kill people. Hunting was just a serendipitous benefit.
He also mentioned the flash suppressor/hider. I don't remember the specific term he used, but he did say it was there to reduce the flash signature. He said it didn't eliminate the flash, but reduced it considerably. They made no mention of reducing muzzle rise. Of course they probably didn't care.
We then went immediately to the range where we fired the M-16 with a .22LR adapter kit. Completely anti-climactic. I missed expert because the idiot next to me shot my target. I would have had a perfect score if not for him.
They didn't let us fire it on burst.
Many years later I went through the CATM course. At that course they made no mention of the muzzle device what-so-ever. I had an M-4 in that course and I can tell you, while controllable, the A2 muzzle device is a sorry excuse for a muzzle brake, if it's supposed to be one, and I don't care what the manual says.
I have an M-4 clone with the A2 muzzle "thingie" and one with a real muzzle brake. I also have a 20" barrel that has no muzzle device on it. The A2 is the same as the 20" without any muzzle device. So, they may call it a compensator, and because it does indeed direct some gas up, you may be able to calculate the physics of how much it will reduce muzzle rise. But it's not a brake and the amount of rise it reduces is not significant enough to be felt by normal humans.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I don't follow military number designations much, but isn't the current one an M16A3?In those illustrations I see the M16A2 has the round hand guards. That's very interesting because, my M16A2 had the triangular hand guards.
Disabled1
US Veteran
I don't know. All I remember is that in BT I was issued an H&R M16A1 with the triangular hand guards. Before I left Ft. Benning, GA. in Nov. 1990 I was issued a Colt M16A2 with triangular hand guards.
ChattanoogaPhil
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Rastoff
US Veteran
Having worked for the USAF for 33 years and having been part of the acquisition process for many very expensive items, it always makes me laugh when people use the term "MIL-SPEC" to denote quality. It might and it might not. MIL-SPEC is simply a list of what the military wants. Whether or not a particular vendor can provide that is another story altogether.If nothing else... at least we have a new definition of "mil-spec"-- Ripped off!
In those illustrations I see the M16A2 has the round hand guards. That's very interesting because, my M16A2 had the triangular hand guards.
One of the changes from A1 to A2 was use of round hand guards. The triangular were A1 and earlier, only.
ChattanoogaPhil
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You bring up a valid point. As critical as we sometimes get with those who call a magazine a clip, receiver extension a buffer tube... on and on... I suppose the only fair thing to do is scold ourselves for calling the A2 muzzle thingie a flash hider or flash suppressor when the military references it as a compensator. Oh boy... this could get rough.
sgtsandman
US Veteran
Like muzzle brakes, flash hiders have varying degrees of performance. Meaning some do their intended job better than others. As far as flash suppressors go, the A2 bird cage does a pretty good job. I can't remember for sure on who did a comparison but it was near the top of the list in suppression performance and for as cheap as they are, one heck of a deal. I think "truth about guns did the test". The same thing with muzzle brakes some perform very well and others not so much. Price paid is not refection on how well they will do. And of course, the are the muzzle devices that claim to do both with an emphasis on one aspect of the other. They are the proverbial jack of all trades, master of none.
Since the primary aim of the A2 flash suppressor is to starve the unburnt gases of oxygen, that is what it does best. I'm not really sure combating muzzle rise was really a consideration in the design and is probably more of an after thought selling point beyond the intended dust kick up minimizing. Rastoff is probably right in the muzzle rise prevention effectiveness being minimal. A true muzzle brake with ports on the top or angled side ports would be more effective.
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Since the primary aim of the A2 flash suppressor is to starve the unburnt gases of oxygen, that is what it does best. I'm not really sure combating muzzle rise was really a consideration in the design and is probably more of an after thought selling point beyond the intended dust kick up minimizing. Rastoff is probably right in the muzzle rise prevention effectiveness being minimal. A true muzzle brake with ports on the top or angled side ports would be more effective.
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Since muzzle flash can't possibly be hidden (the business end is wide open) and my Drill Sgt made me do several exhausting 8 count pushups for not knowing the proper nomenclature (according to him). To this day over 3 decades later I refer to the thing screwed on the end of the M16, AR, M4 or any other variants as a "Flash Suppressor". It can only suppress visible flash. It cannot hide the flash..... This misunderstanding turned my arms and legs to rubber, but as much of an A hole that guy was to me I know he was correct...
Disabled1
US Veteran
In BT we were issued (2) pair of boots. On the upper rear of one pair of the boots was a white dot painted onto them. We were to wear the dot pair every other day as to not wear out a pair from wearing them always.
One morning, during a Chinese fire drill, I put on the wrong pair of boots. From morning inspection until 20:30 that night, I was pushing up about every 15 minutes to an hour. From 20:30-21:00 was our time. My DI called me to his tent (11B-Infantry-We lived in the field 80% of BT). He told me why I did push ups all day. My arms were like rubber that evening, but, I slept very well!
Rastoff
US Veteran
Wait, the thing that holds my collapsible stock is not a buffer tube? Who knew.
My vote is for muzzle thingie. Just think how much fun it will be irritating other AR enthusiasts. Personally I like calling my shot shells bullets. This really angers some at the local range. I'm a bad boy.
As for the rifle designation, this is a good read: M16 rifle - Wikipedia
While it probably was the intention of the military to upgrade the forearm with the round one on the A2, I can attest that things don't always go that way. It's possible that the military accepted rifles with the other features of the new A2 while still accepting the triangular hand guard. I've seen it many times in my career where the new thing still has some old parts on it. Saves cost for everyone.
Thanks to everyone for the deep-dive on all different kinds of muzzle thingie's. To answer my original questions...I did put a Mechforce muzzle brake on my M&P 15T. The range I shoot at is outdoors, fairly open, and plenty of room between stations. The noise and concussion from this little thing shouldn't be an issue for anyone. I can't wait to take it out to the range and see how much difference it made. Thanks again to everyone for the needed info!
I suppose the only fair thing to do is scold ourselves for calling the A2 muzzle thingie a flash hider or flash suppressor when the military references it as a compensator. Oh boy... this could get rough.
Heh heh...for some, yes.
Just to get technical, Army references prior to the M16A2 call it a flash suppressor. Subsequent versions (post-A1) with solid lower half get the 'compensator' designation.
Like anything else, trying to combine functions (flash suppression + redirection of muzzle gas) in one unit tends to result in reduced abilities in both functions. The A2 does have some brake effect (compensation), but it's not as good as a purpose-designed brake device. The Smith Vortex does a spectacular job of suppressing flash, with no brake effect.
cyphertext
US Veteran
Yes. I know that in 1990, the USAF had some rifles that had the A2 upper with elevation drum sight, but had triangle hand guards. We also had A1 uppers that were rebarreled with newer barrels and muzzle thingies.
sgtsandman
US Veteran
I can hardly wait for the new guys to come along and see everyone calling the hider/compensator/brakes muzzle thingies as the forum joke and losing their minds! LOL
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PanzerSS
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Yeah, that will be funny.
I call all of them a FLASH HIDER. It's like down here in the south, no matter what kind of cold drink you are drinking, everything is called a Coke.
PanzerSS
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I don't mean to burst your bubble, but, here is a M16A1 FLASH HIDER.
AR15/M16A1 Flashider Birdcage
3 Prong Muzzle Device Durability : ar15
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