First off I have done a ton of resarch on doing the trigger mods on the 40ve I have watched the youtube videos read all the forum posts(that's how I found this forum) and they look simple enough but if any of you have any tips or specific problems that you ran into when you did your mod please let me know.

I have been collecting springs at work for the last week in hopes that I can find the right size replacement for the outer spring(might do this, might not) and last night at Wallyworld I decided to go with a nail buffing/emory board instead of the dremel because I don't want to ruin the seer trying to slightly improve the gun. Again any additional tips would be great.


(HspncElvis) I am modding the gun because I don't think the trigger pull will be for me as I am new to handguns.

Don't do it.

Seriously. As you say you're new to guns, I suggest you learn how to use them in their factory-issued condition before you start home-gunsmithing.

And it's "sear."

I agree, shoot it a bit first before you start on your gunsmithing journey. There is a good video on you tube by 'Jeff', look up Sigma trigger fix, the name of the video is 'Making a silk purse out of a pigs ear' or similar, it's about 4 volumes, I liked the whole thing.

i wouldnt mess with it.well,actually i did the silk purse fix on mine and ended up with a broken striker.maybe polishing the sear a bit and smoothing out the rough edges would be helpful,but removing and replacing any springs just alters the function of the entire assembly.in my opinion,removing the pigtail spring affected the timing of the striker reset,resulting in its breakage.i did get a few rounds out of it before it broke,and the improvement was minimal,not worth it.well good luck whatever you decide

^^^^^^^^^ 100% right^^^^^^^
its not as bad as some say, after 200 or so rounds its so much better

Same as above. Why mod something that isn't broken. Plus, your new to handguns,how can a trigger pull not be for you. Just practice. Being that you haven't had experience with other triggers, you should have no problem learning with the Sigma, being you have nothing to compare it to. Buy lots of ammo and have fun!

Besides if you dont try it first you have nothing to compare the modifications to

My advise is to throw the spring collection in the trash can and have fun shooting your gun.

__________________
SD9VE, American perfection!

The problem seems to be that due to you being a new shooter, you have nothing to compare your new purchase with. Ideally, if you could have fired a few revolvers and a few single action semi-autos, you would have a better idea of what a trigger pull SHOULD feel like.

I agree with all the above comments. Work with it first to determine if you even want to keep a DA type auto. If so, there are plenty of instructions on how to "smooth" out your trigger pull.

Second, you need to know exactly what purpose your pistol will be used for. If it is self defense/home defense, you should probably limit such mods to polishing all friction points. If it is going to be used primarily for target shooting, then some sort of spring mods can be achieved with very positive results.

I have modified my 9ve extensively. But that said, I also did a lot/LOT of research before any changes were made. I asked for and received some very good advice from experienced gun enthusiasts. I was also very attentive to any negative results documented regarding such mods. This is NOT my primary SD/HD weapon.

It is very easy to get a simple, easy and smooth trigger pull. But for every action, there is a possible price in reliability. Reliability is not that important, IF you are limiting your pistol to target shooting only. If you are going to gamble your life on that pistol working every time you pull the trigger, then you have a 99% assurance it will work without any modifications to it.

Your choice. If it is not what you want, then you might consider selling it, taking a loss and purchasing a pistol more in line with your purpose and preference.

Deciding that a gun has a 'bad trigger' and doing online research about how to modify it without extensive experience and practice with the gun is hasty and foolish. If you had heard nothing about Sigmas but were handed one at the range, told it was a good gun, and only saw those around you shoot good groups, you would probably just practice a lot and soon be able to shoot as well as the others.

Collecting springs in the hope that they will be the right size displays a lot of inexperience with springs. Can you test spring rates, or are you just going to 'eyeball' it?

My friend, listen to the good advice here, go get some practice with the box-stock Sigma, and break it in really well. If you then don't like the trigger, sell it and buy another gun with a trigger that you like better.

It beats trying to out-engineer the gun manufacturers.

if you want to mod your gun, mod your gun. if you want some advise or tips pm me. i have done ALOT!!! to reduce pull weight and travel. one thing i will say is that using the stock trigger WILL make you a better shooter, as long as your doing it correctly. its your gun do what you want, the good thing is its cheap enough to practice modding so if you mess it up you dont feel as bad. ps. if you do mess something up numerich has replacement parts.

Ok I am not a virgin shooter. I have never owned a handgun before, but I do own a 10/22, a Savage 64, a .410 and owned and sold a 30-06 so I am not completely foreign to guns. I have shot a dozen or so different handguns and know enough that I prefer the glock trigger to the .357 trigger.

With all do respect to everyone that has posted here the removal of a pigtail spring and the possible polishing of a sear( ) is something that a drunk monkey can do.... That being said I am applying the term "I know enough to be dangerous" to this project and will hold off on the modifications for now until I put some rounds down range to see if the trigger is as bad as 98% of the internet says it is. I thank you all for your caution and will let you know how the trigger treats me.

Thanks

If you put forth an honest effort, it may just surprise you; you may even like it.

Some sigma owners are on a never ending quest to turn the sigma into something that it isn't.

When mine passed through @ 1000 rounds, the gun was so smooth it's almost rediculous.

Give the gun a chance, put forth the effort to shoot it well and then decide what you want to do.

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SD9VE, American perfection!

If you feel the trigger pull is "defective", send it back. It has a (limited) lifetime warranty and if you mod the trigger, you void the warranty. I sent mine back to S&W after several hundred rounds due to the pull feeling gritty and uneven. Once I received it back from S&W, the pull was smooth as silk and the pull felt much better. It's by no means a 5 lb. pull, but it's better than it was.

It's a fine shootin' machine for sure. Enjoy your Sigma!

You made some good points. There are several sources of after market parts available on line. The Sigma is a great little pistol but can be improved IF one likes to tinker. Like you said, it's inexpensive enough to be able to replace any parts that are ruined in the modification process. Other than the parts that I have polished, I have saved all parts that have been replaced.

In my opinion if it takes thousands of rounds fired through it to achieve a level of smoothness and comfort, I have saved myself a lot of time and money by making my mods. I also believe that if you need your pistol in a pinch, you shouldn't have to worry about not having practiced enough to build up your strength and trigger control. You should be able to just point and shoot and not have to worry about the heavy trigger pulling you off the target enough to get you killed. Just my opinion.

I just figure it this way. If I can hit the center of the target consistently after practicing with a box of rounds, versus hitting the center after firing off two thousand rounds and a lot more time of practice, I am ahead.

I take less chance of tipping a wheel barrow half filled than with a full load. Sure, I can practice wheeling that thing around with a full load until I don't dump it as much, but I also bet that I can run a half load to the destination faster than a full load. I may not build up my strength but I will get all the load to my destination.

I am not disagreeing with anyone that says that a person's trigger finger strength will improve. But I do have a question for some to ponder. If I can achieve accuracy with a lighter trigger pull, why do I need a heavy trigger pull? Is there any other pistol that I might have occasion to shoot in an emergency that might require as much effort? What is the likelihood of my firing such a weapon?

ThemB, there really isn't any wrong answer. The question was regarding modifications. I believe youtube had some of the best beginner instruction for modifying the action. I also picked up some good ideas on here. You can check some older posts for some good suggestions. I will be glad to post my results just as soon as I get a chance to test my mods extensively. I would hate to pass on information if it causes failure. As long as you realize that any modifications have the potential to render the pistol useless and your warranty void, then you are mentally prepared. It's your pistol and if you wish to paint it pink and put a rifle scope on it, then go for it.

Only one more comment: if you mod it (and I modified mine) you have a dilemma when you go to sell it -- and many of us sell guns, for a variety of reasons.

The dilemma is that the new owner won't know about the history of the mod unless you tell him, nor know what the gun was supposed to be like. And neither of you will know how reliable the gun is.

You will be selling a gun to someone who can no longer return it for service, as the warranty is unlikely to be honored if the springs have been removed or modified -- and a significant part of the resale value of a S&W is that famous customer service.

I agree with the advice that says, wait and shoot it for a while before you modify it. You can modify it -- many do, and enjoy the results -- but then it won't be an ideal SD gun anymore. Lots to think about -- enjoy the darn thing, they are a good value for the money. If you want a shorter, lighter, smoother trigger... consider the SD if you really like the ergos of the Sigma... or consider the M&P... and the Apex mods, or the Burwell trigger job... lots of options for the M&P!

Have fun, and be safe.

Exactly. That's why I have ALL the original springs, labeled and contained in a baggy. IF I ever decide to sell the pistol, I will return the springs to the pistol, IF the new owner wishes. They may very well be buying it BECAUSE of the mods.

I doubt that my mods will preclude my sigma from being used as a self defense weapon. The only reason that would happen is if I was to replace a spring with one that is way too light/weak. I will NOT use a weak spring, but I will make it lighter utilizing a combination of work on the weapon. The trigger does NOT have to be hard for it to be a SD weapon. But, many of you are correct in assuming that some folks may make the weapon too weak to maintain its reliability. Like I said before, mine will be used primarily for plinking, to maintain and improve my shooting skills. I don't need a hard trigger in order for me to know that my finger is pulling the shots off to the left.

Having a hard trigger does not make the pistol the perfect SD weapon. If so, folks would not be carrying 1911's or other single action weapons. This weapon has two safeties, that are simple but adequate. You can easily half the trigger pull and still have a safe and possibly reliable weapon. I bet there are hundreds of sigma owners that have trigger mods and still have reliable weapons. As a matter of fact, those on here that say their trigger pull is easier now that they have fired thousands of rounds, are proof. They have smoothed the friction parts by repetition, and the springs have weakened from use. If they are not replacing their springs, then they have essentially the same action that those of us that have modified our weapons.

If you want to stand by the notion that a hard trigger pull makes one a better shot, fine. I didn't buy the sigma to make me a better shot. The only competition I do is in the back yard. I don't need to be an expert shot to put down a bad guy or a coyote if it wanders too close.

I am not disagreeing with the concept that many of you claim the hard trigger pull will make you a better shot. I am just saying, that may not be the reason for purchasing a pistol. I will also say that if you are a good shot with a hard trigger, then you are a better shot with an easy trigger pull. That's just logical, right?

A machine may be good quality and work fine from the factory. There is NO machine that can not be improved. I bought the sigma because it had a good feel and I got it cheap. If you like it the way it was made, then keep it that way. The post was related to possible mods to the weapon. I don't like flash lights on a pistol, but I won't tell anyone not to do it, because I don't like it. I don't like shiny guns, but that is my preference, and I won't tell someone not to shine their pistol.

My advice if you want it, regarding mods: Save your stock parts and make changes to spare parts.

I was one of those that removed the "pigtail spring" but have put it back in because I am going to carry it as my CCW pistol. After putting it back in I found there was no different in the trigger pull.Now if something goes wrong with the pistol it is in warranty and if I have to use it to protect myself or family no BS for having a modified pistol.

I took my pigtail spring out and didn't bother to put it back. I still have it, so if it becomes a warranty issue, I can put it back in before shipping it out.

I figure it this way, if my pistol works 100% of the time without it, I doubt that it is going to quit working without the pigtail spring if I point it at a bad guy. Just saying.

Do what you want to do. The way I look at it, if you are scared to make mods to you pistol, then DON'T do it. If you don't like the pistol the way it is and you are not going to make mods to it, then sell it and get a nice single action pistol.

If you want opinions, this is a great place to get them. If you are looking for someone to guarantee your modifications, you ain't gonna get it here.

One piece of advice I will give though. Keep the weapon clean. This weapon will probably work better than most when dirty, but if you want it to work in that one emergency that comes along, keep it clean. I have seen some of the best weapons misfire or jam when they were needed the most. And I am referring to law enforcement incidents. And if you want your pistol to work smooth, then it certainly won't hurt to clean it. Just saying...........

MDLNB Wrote:

"There is NO machine that can not be improved"

Exactly the way I feel and if this were not True you would never have heard of the likes of: Ed Brown, Novak, Heinie, Wilson, King, Douglas, BarSto, Nowlin, Videckie, Wolff and hundreds more.

Fighting a Heavy Trigger is not going to make you a better Marksman and it will infact hinder your skills if you are shooting multiple weapons on your trips to the range.

Don't believe it then shoot a Stock Sigma say 100 Rds then take a turn with your Glock with a 3.5# Connector or your 1911 that breaks very cleanly at 3.5#. You will be at a loss for the next 20-30 rounds to find that Sweet Squeeze that has them almost if not touching at 15 yards.

The Sigma is a wonderful 0-7 Yd. Self Defense Weapon and that is what it was designed to be. In it's Stock configuration it is not going to make you a better pistol marksman no matter who proclaims it will. Bad Guy Troubles at 0-7 Yds can be handled quite well with just about anything that can Throw Lead provided you can control Shot Placement to a decent degree.

Everyone that carries a pistol seems to concentrate on 7 and 15 yards for practice. When the likelyhood of a Bad Guy Encounter is much more likely to happen Very Up Close And Personal. If one were a Smart Packer that same one would practice just as much controling fire with the weapon very close to his person at 0-1 yard. But very few who carry practice this training. "The Machine Carring The Weapon Can And Should Be Improved Upon Also!"

__________________
John McCaw
FFL/SOT2

Fired a hundred rounds of PMC FMJ through my modified 9ve today. I also allowed three others to shoot a mag each with it. They love the Hi-Viz sight I put on it. My son-in-law is going to buy one for his Glock. I Also shot a Barretta 40SW, new. The 40sw is a single action, and I have to tell you, that even though it had a nice grip, I did not like the amount of slack in the trigger, considering it is a single action. One guy had recently purchased an LCP and cut his thumb three times before realizing he had his weak hand placed wrong. What a bunch. But it was still fun.

My modified 9ve was smooth and without fault. I even rapid fired it, without a failure and put all shots in the black. The Hi-Viz is so bright it looks like it is powered.

Next step in the testing process will be to shoot hot ammo through it to see if I can induce a reset failure. I don't want to be presumptuous but I may have found the threshold of where you can make a certain amount of modifications and still not have failures. I will next fire some Federal and Win. Ranger +P ammo. I will continue to test it with boxes of cheap ammo also. Next weekend I will pick up a case of cheap ball ammo at a local gun show.

I believe that I may be ok with the mods I have made to the pistol. Only time and much much more testing will determine.

Once again, that new sight is really good. Even with my terrible eyesight, I had a good day.

I'm a new poster, but not new to guns or amateur gunsmithing.

The trigger pull weight of a gun, particularly a double-action (I'm not going to get into the debate about "it's not double action because it doesn't have a hammer"), is dependent on two things: friction and springs.

The design of the gun generally assumes that friction will go to near zero with use and then the springs will be the main factor. You can either put one or two thousand rounds through it, or you can mimic what that does and enjoy good shooting right away.

The SW40VE is well-designed, but rather cheaply manufactured, which means the out of the box heavy trigger-pull is mostly caused by friction, and I think that posters who are happy with the trigger out of the box probably got a smoother specimen than I did.

I've looked at the internet videos and seen that they mostly involve doing something with the springs. If the main problem is friction, then messing with the springs is breaking something that isn't broken, instead of fixing what is broken. I've got guns that are over 100 years old and still in good working condition, ball-point pen springs are not built to last 100 years in a gun.

The problem is not in the trigger but in the lower sear mechanism. The "gritty" feeling comes from there, as does a lot of the friction.

The sear in any gun is two metal surfaces like blocks that face each other under spring pressure when the gun is cocked and the trigger causes them to slide apart, abruptly releasing the hammer, or in this case, the striker. Technically the sear is the single part that holds back the hammer or striker tang but I'm using "upper" and "lower" here for clarity.

In the SW40VE the lower sear and sear housing are located in the rear of the frame. The lower sear is a cam which, when connected to the trigger by a simple metal link, will move rearward and downward, thus cocking the striker and then releasing it through a single trigger pull. The upper sear, or striker tang, is in the slide, connected to the striker.

The "grittiness" is caused by the fact that slot in the lower sear has been roughly machined, causing the bar that pushes the lower sear rearward to "chatter" through the machining marks. Also, the lower sear has an "S" shaped curve at the rear which interacts with a plastic ramp in the sear housing to drive the cam downward as it proceeds rearward. Again, rough machining marks here cause friction. The plastic is not the smoothest it could be, due to mold marks.

Finally, the surfaces of both the upper sear (attached to the striker in the slide) and the lower sear are roughly machined surfaces, causing friction.

So the real "trigger fix" is:

1. Smooth and polish the contact surface of the slot inside of the cam that is the lower sear

2. Smooth and polish the part of the lower sear cam that contacts the plastic sear housing as it moves rearward

3. Smooth and polish the mold marks on the plastic sear housing that contact the sear cam

4. Smooth and polish the contact surface (which contacts the upper sear) of the lower sear

5. Smooth and polish the contact surface of the upper sear (which contacts the lower sear) (you need to remove the striker from the slide to do this)

Some purists will object to 4 and 5, saying that the sear will be rounded and less crisp. But if you carefully polish the surfaces with the flat stick, that will be minimal. And a crisp sear is much more important and noticable in a single action than a double action.

WARNING: Do not use a power tool for these steps! It is too easy to remove too much metal.

I used a metal fingernail file from Revlon to get the machine marks out (thanks to my wife who gave it to me a long while back). I would say that the rough side is about 400 grit and the smooth is about 500.

Then I used a 600 grit "Angle Cut Sanding Stick" (works better when wet) from www.stevenshobby.com to polish the surfaces mentioned.

You need a jeweler's loupe or some other 10X magnifier to look at the original condition and to see when you have polished enough.

Finally, I lubed all contact surfaces (including the side of the sear housing that contacts the sear) with a Hob-E-Lube dry graphite and molybdenum (HL651). Look for a hobby store that sells electric trains, for this stuff. I like dry lubes or Rem-oil in guns because neither tend to collect grit.

I would say the trigger pull is now smooth and comparable to a Glock 23 or the new S&W SD (which has a redesigned rotating sear mechanism that has its own issues.) Not as good as a S&W M&P.45, which I have also fired.

I know this sounds like a lot of work, compared to changing springs. But when you change or remove springs you are redesigning the gun.

Since this is primarily a self-defense weapon; would you bet your life on a gun redesigned by you?

The other issue is, if you fire on someone in self-defense, your gun will be impounded and examined. Or even worse, God forbid, there is an accidental discharge and someone is hurt. You don't want to explain to a court why your gun has had factory parts removed, replaced or modified to make it easier to fire.

The "fix" I've described keeps all of the factory parts intact, just working the way they were designed to work after the gun is broken in. If you don't want to do this yourself but you want to improve your gun, then copy this post and take it with your gun to a reputable gunsmith. He (she) should be able to give you an estimate of cost based on the specific tasks I have outlined.

You will be shooting tight groups with this "horrible trigger pull" right away.

Happy Shooting!

PS: I originally did send the gun back to a S&W gunsmith under warranty complaining of the gritty and heavy pull even after 200 rounds. It came back with the note "replaced sear housing" and if anything, was worse.

Zebra:

Excellent post! I think you have it all covered.

If you plan on carrying your pistol concealed modifying the triggers is a slippery slope. I have heard prosecuting attorneys will often use the lightened trigger against you. Plus in the heat of the moment a lightened trigger may go off unintentionally. Of course if it will be a range or plinking piece....that's a different story. All of the above may be theory and conjecture but I don't want to take that chance. As others have said shooting it may help smooth the trigger and getting to know your pistol first isn't a bad idea.

THAT'S GREAT ADVICE FROM ERICH.........

__________________
'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Hey Zebra - post more, hombre!

Thanks for the kind words, Joe!

Interesting. I spent a lot of time in court and have NEVER had any prosecutors question the action of a fire arm. Things must be different today. I would be glad to go to court and explain my mods and then ask what if anything it had to do with self defense. I also read a lot of news articles related to shootings and have yet to find one where someone modifying their weapon was even questioned. If anything modification to a weapon would be a possible DEFENSE against Accidental shooting, not self defense. Just saying...

As far as accidental discharges, these aren't single action weapons. You are more apt to have an AD with a single action weapon than a double action weapon. You still have two safeties on this weapon that prevent accidents. You would have to be real nervous to pull a double action trigger to the point of firing.

AD is not a factor in these modifications. Fail to fires are the only factor in these modifications.

One point that I would like to point out regarding the use of ball point pen springs. Many mods consisting of using the pen spring, merely replaces the outer spring on the sear. NOT the inner spring. The old Sigma apparently did not have the outer spring. I may be wrong on that point. But, if you are merely replacing the outer spring, the one that keeps the inner spring fairly straight, then the pen spring is still serving it's purpose. If you eliminate the inner spring, then I can see where the problem would exist.

The striker spring is the one that provides the power to the firing pin, not the sear. I am not an expert but the way I see it, the only thing that would happen if the trigger or sear springs being replaced would do is cause a failure for the trigger to reset, rendering the pistol useless.....not dangerous.

There seems to be a lot of debate over (spring)modifications. The way I see it, the worst that can happen if you modify the springs, is you render the pistol useless. I see no way that you are going to make it dangerous or cause it to fire prematurely. This is a double action and you HAVE to draw the striker back in order for it to fire. If you have an accidental discharge, then you shouldn't be firing any pistol while you are that stressed.

I do actually agree that the sigma will become smoother as it wears. I also agree that the springs will become weaker and thus an easier trigger pull. Some folks don't want to fire thousands of rounds before they achieve that result. They can't afford a better, more expensive pistol that will give them that action, so they expedite the wear by making mods.

I respect the "purist" view. I also respectfully disagree that ALL mods are dangerous. Many folks come aboard this forum to ask for advice on how to modify their weapons SAFELY.

There are plenty of forums out there that argue which is better the Glock or the Sigma. There are plenty of threads on HERE where folks expound on how they get a thrill every time they fire their Sigma, or get a chill up their legs. You know, all that girly talk....just kidding.

I don't know about others on here but I frequent this forum to learn about ballistics, reloading, preferred holsters, new sights, AND improvements. Improvements to the function and operation of my 9ve by means of modifications. Other, more expensive pistols have after market parts readily available to make their weapon function even better. Unfortunately, the Sigma does not warrant such favor in the after market industry so many mods are a result of back yard mechanics. I peruse the forums in search of "results" from these modifications. I want to know how far the ceiling has been stretched before failure resulted. That way, I will have no need to invest time in these experiments and can aim in a different direction with my mods.

Many folks have been successful with their mods but are reluctant to comment in fear of being criticized for corrupting the "stock" design.

Believe me when I say that just because I enjoy "plinking" in the back yard, I am sure that the same round that punches a hole in paper will also work quite satisfactory as a defense in exigent circumstances. Reliability? Well, so far I have had NO failures. I have one question though. How many rounds do I need to fire through my modified Sigma before it will be deemed "dependable?" I have heard of Sigmas out of the box that have had failures, that are factory standard.

The purpose of my diatribe is not to argue the dependability of a factory standard pistol. My purpose is only to recognize that not everyone wants or intends to maintain it at factory standards. Many feel that a weapon, like any other machine can be improved and/or personalized. I imagine that is the reasoning behind new sights, painting the slide, new grips, etc.

I've been a prosecutor and have reviewed hundreds of criminal cases as an appellate lawyer, and have never seen this be an issue either - but I'm not going to get into it.

It's unlikely to ever be an issue, but it's certainly not impossible that it could be one under the right circumstances - no sense discussing all the possibilities (who's got the time to waste?) here.

I've had work done on a number of my guns' triggers, and done some myself. Do whatever you want, but you may have to justify it and you will definitely have to be responsible for what you do.

Working with the original trigger is going to make a strong trigger finger.
Working the trigger is going to make a better trigger.
I got my trigger strength from a BB gun but still removed the pigtail. (I think reset speed enters only when really fast firing. My fingers can't go that fast.)
I polished every part I could get to, taking care to not do much to the sear. Polishing the barrel ramp is important, again not changing the shape.

It holds and shoots so-o-o nice.