I would like to change the hammer on my CS9 to a traditional spurred one. Anyone know if S&W offers this hammer as a drop in? I emailed S&W today and am waiting a reply. Do you think a 5906 spurred hammer etc. would be the same specs & interchangeable with the CS9 ? Thanks, Mike
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CS9 Changing Hammer To Spurred Hammer
- Thread starter B/STOCK
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A year or two ago I did the research to do exactly what you want to do. I have the parts, but haven't done the swap yet. Just never got around to researching the disassembly. I'll get to it one of these days. You may have piqued my interest.
What I learned, though, is that you need the hammer for the 5906, which I got from Numrich: 398860A, 39, 59, 69 SERIES Hammer, 9mm (Low Profile Quick Draw). I think I learned this direct from S&W.
So give it a try, if you want. Hopefully I have given you the correct information. Oh, and please make copious notes and take detailed photographs of every step of the installation, so the rest of us can learn how.
David
What I learned, though, is that you need the hammer for the 5906, which I got from Numrich: 398860A, 39, 59, 69 SERIES Hammer, 9mm (Low Profile Quick Draw). I think I learned this direct from S&W.
So give it a try, if you want. Hopefully I have given you the correct information. Oh, and please make copious notes and take detailed photographs of every step of the installation, so the rest of us can learn how.
David
N4KVE
Member
As I said in another thread, I had my smith install a 5906 hammer on my 3913. Since the CS guns came with a mim'd hammer, you will have to use the same. GARY
On second thought I think I will bring the CS9 to my smith and get his opinion too. I really don't feel confident replacing a hammer. Best left to those who know what they are doing. Still need a answer to min"d hammer though. Thanks Mike
N4KVE
Member
The earlier guns had milled trigger parts, & the later guns had mim'd [cheaper quality] trigger parts. You don't want to mix them up. Since the CS series were later guns, they used mim'd trigger parts. GARY
MIM is Metal Injection Molding, which more and more gun parts are made with these days. Many feel they are not as strong as traditional parts, but I don't sweat it.
Why? I'm not disputing what you say. I'm just curious. Do you mean that you shouldn't mix a combination of MIM and non-MIM parts in a gun?
What type of parts did MIM replace? Cast, machined, or forged?
David
Why? I'm not disputing what you say. I'm just curious. Do you mean that you shouldn't mix a combination of MIM and non-MIM parts in a gun?
What type of parts did MIM replace? Cast, machined, or forged?
David
N4KVE
Member
Machined, or forged are the best, cast is one step below, & mim'd is below that. While I'm not a metalurgist, I would assume they want parts with the same hardness to work together. GARY
MWater
Member
I came upon this post from Fastbolt a while back when I was googling the subject. It's pretty informative.
Yep, the flash-chromed hammers and triggers started going away in the mid-to-late 90's as the MIM parts were being produced.
The older machined hammers were also made available in black for some models.
I don't pretend to have anything like a definitive answer, but here's some hammers I grabbed out of my parts bins.
The 2 hammers on the left (spurless) are both machined carbon steel hammers. The flash-chromed hammer is for an early production 3rd gen 6906. Notice it has some serrations at the top. The black finish spurless hammer next to it is newer and listed as a part for one of the later production Value Line guns. It lacks the serrations on top.
The 2 hammers on the right are both MIM. You can see the indentations in the sides which indicate it's a MIM part.
Now, the triggers can be a little interesting. I've seen a bit of variance in the machining & finish of the older machined triggers, in the area of the "prongs" (or hooks) which ride in the V-notch of the drawbar head. The MIM triggers have always seemed to be much smoother and more uniformly shaped in that area.
The older machined hammers could have anywhere from a very smooth to a very rough surface on the rounded front surface, depending on the sharpness of the cutter used when it was made. The MIM hammers are uniformly smooth. (Something you might notice in a DA trigger stroke.)
The 9/.40 triggers were also a bit wider in the models which had wide frames (for double column mags), compared to say, a 3913. The MIM triggers were narrower across the face than the older machined triggers in the wide frames guns, and had a slightly rounded, higher center instead of being as flat across the face as the older machined triggers. I had mixed feelings about the slightly narrower and rounded face MIM triggers ... until I'd invested a lot of range time with them in a 59XX gun. Then I decided I liked them. Quite a bit.
I can't remember comparing the older .45 triggers (4516 v. 645/4506), though.
While I've heard conflicting info from factory sources (including in different armorer classes) about mixing machined & MIM hammers and sears in TDA guns, for the sake of optimal long term functioning, when it comes to matching hammers & sears I'd keep MIM with MIM and machined with machined. (In DAO guns it's absolutely required to keep machined/machined & MIM/MIM when it comes to matching hammers and sears. There are distinct angle differences between the old and new DAO parts.)
cpeblue
Member
You really need to google metal injected molding. I have seen some real **** forged and machined parts from S&W and other gun manufactures . I have yet to see a MIM part that looked like **** or needed the tool marks polished off to smooth them down. I have yet to see a MIM part fail other than internet here say. If I get a 3rd gen with a terrible trigger I pull out the forged junk and replace it with MIM parts , problem solved . This 15 year internet war over MIM parts is almost comical lets face it GM uses powdered metal connecting rods good for up to 700 hp in there LS engines. Rant over
N4KVE
Member
Let's face it. S&W, & other gun mfrs didn't stop making milled parts, & go to mim'd parts because they are more durable, or better quality. They did so to save $, as it costs less to make mim'd parts. While many of the lower cost 1911 mfr's now use mim'd trigger parts, & that's fine for most of us, the high end 1911 mfrs use forged trigger parts. I wonder why? GARY
ShelbyV8
Member
Because Kimber used low quality MIM parts that failed and they blamed it on MIM instead of the quality of their parts. The connecting rods in the GM LS engine sees more stress and friction in the first 5 minutes of it's life than a firearm will see's in a lifetime. I did put a 4506 hammer in my 639 to eliminate the 1/2 cock click on double action. The hammer an stirrup required no modification.
N4KVE
Member
Are you saying the LS9 conn rods are mim'd? GARY
cpeblue
Member
Lets see , a LS9 will cost me about 18K, a LS7 about 13K. A LS6 was a LS1 with a cam and red engine covers. The LS3 runs about 7K and gives me 450hp, Bang for the buck goes to the LS3 with those non forged parts. High end 1911 makers like forged parts because a good machinist can make the forged parts look pretty and the cost of pretty starts at what 2K ? And goes up from there. Point , MIM parts are made to very close tolerances at a much cheaper price and don't need the machining of a forged part. Is it stronger, depends on the type of alloy and heating processes . Bottom line MIM is not as bad as some would have you think it is. If I was a machinist I would hate the stuff taking work away from me. sorry for the 2nd rant. By the way LS9/7 connecting rod are forged titanium with forged aluminum pistons . I'm done
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This is what I got from S&W on my inquiry.
Dear Customer,
To place an order, depending on availability, you can call customer service at (800)331-0852 Ext. 4125, Monday through Friday, 8am to 8pm Eastern Standard time.
You will need a spurred hammer from a 5906TSW model. Also, you will need to swap the stirrups. Your old stirrup will need to be installed onto the new 5906TSW hammer before you install it.
The part number for the hammer you will need is: 394020000. I believe they are around $42.00 plus shipping.
Smith&Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.
Regards, Steve
Cannot find a hammer for a 5906TSW. Bought this 5906 spurred hammer from Numrich. If it fits fine if not so be it. Anyone know if the TSW hammer is any different?
398860A
Hammer, 9mm (Low Profile Quick Draw)
$25.60
1 $25.60
Dear Customer,
To place an order, depending on availability, you can call customer service at (800)331-0852 Ext. 4125, Monday through Friday, 8am to 8pm Eastern Standard time.
You will need a spurred hammer from a 5906TSW model. Also, you will need to swap the stirrups. Your old stirrup will need to be installed onto the new 5906TSW hammer before you install it.
The part number for the hammer you will need is: 394020000. I believe they are around $42.00 plus shipping.
Smith&Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.
Regards, Steve
Cannot find a hammer for a 5906TSW. Bought this 5906 spurred hammer from Numrich. If it fits fine if not so be it. Anyone know if the TSW hammer is any different?
398860A
Hammer, 9mm (Low Profile Quick Draw)
$25.60
1 $25.60
N4KVE
Member
Or you could place a want ad on this forum like I did, & get a hammer with the proper rod for $20 shipped. GARY
Their no such thing as special line of TSW hammers. You are over thinking this.
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