Performance Center Model 41 question

I've been away from the forum for eons, but am now back and have a question from the 41 experts. Is there any real difference between the standard Model 41 and the Performance Center 41, other than the obvious front sight/built in scope mounting rails on the barrel, and Performance Center markings? I've heard that the trigger is lighter and even that the barrel is different, however when I looked at the S&W web site, all the specifications, i.e. trigger weight, barrel rifling etc. were the same. Thanks.

I didn't notice any difference in the trigger pull, just the obvious differences you mentioned. But do have to say that the grips look great.

It seems most of the differences are more cosmetic then mechanical in nature to me.A different appearance is the main thing too me.

PC guns are generally worked on the outside and inside.

The PC41 was reported to have, Performance Center tuned action that delivers a velvet smooth trigger pull.

I must say that the trigger on mine is really really good.
Smooth, zero creep, light, just amazing.

Having said that.......
Mine has many sharp edges here and there, some quite rough machining inside the slide, and then there is the tumbling / key holing at around the 10 meter range.

Looking at the barrel, about an inch in from the crown, there is a definite difference. really not sure what it is.

So far (6 months) , requests for replacement barrel from Aus distributor has not happened.

leinster lad said:

I must say that the trigger on mine is really really good.
Smooth, zero creep, light, just amazing.

Having said that.......
Mine has many sharp edges here and there, some quite rough machining inside the slide, and then there is the tumbling / key holing at around the 10 meter range.

Looking at the barrel, about an inch in from the crown, there is a definite difference. really not sure what it is.

So far (6 months) , requests for replacement barrel from Aus distributor has not happened.

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Mate, I do presume you have bought it new and the barrel issus is from new. If so you need to take it back to the dealer that sold it to you. Its not your job to tackle the distributor, that belongs to the seller. At the end of the day Law in Australia are quite clear on your rights.
Feel free to contact me via PM or email.
Good Luck

Aussie Collector said:

Mate, I do presume you have bought it new and the barrel issus is from new. If so you need to take it back to the dealer that sold it to you. Its not your job to tackle the distributor, that belongs to the seller. At the end of the day Law in Australia are quite clear on your rights.
Feel free to contact me via PM or email.
Good Luck

Click to expand...

Thanks Aussie,
bought new from a Tassy importer who is no longer in business (2 yrs ago) so the only avenue open to me is thru the Australian Importer / Dealer ( Grycol )
I emailed Grycol again today, just waiting for his reply.

Gotta say though, for a premium priced pistol, they sure do seem to have their issues....

leinster lad said:

Thanks Aussie,
bought new from a Tassy importer who is no longer in business (2 yrs ago) so the only avenue open to me is thru the Australian Importer / Dealer ( Grycol )
I emailed Grycol again today, just waiting for his reply.

Gotta say though, for a premium priced pistol, they sure do seem to have their issues....

Click to expand...

This post changes things. If I have it right you purchased the gun 2 years ago and for the last 6 months been trying to get the barrel replaced, that's a big gap from purchase to seeking replacement.

A good gunsmith should be able to reline the barrel which could well be as good as a new barrel. Some liners today are very high quality such as Walther, local gunsmith will reline one for $50.00. Very well worth a try.

I much prefer the older 41.

There is no "standard" and "PC" 41. the 41 was made long before the Performance Center existed. That's just where S&W builds them now and they don't impress me at all. They were never made at the same time.

This isn't a Shield we're talking about.

bc1023 said:

That's just where S&W builds them now and they don't impress me at all. They were never made at the same time.

Click to expand...

This would seem to indicate otherwise:

S&W Model 41

There are two standard models shown and one Performance Center model. I have the Performance Center model with the integrated rail and really like it. On the whole, it compares favorably with my older version. But to each, his own.

Sure Kidcom,
With the barrel off the frame.....
Looking into the chamber, while "pointing" the crown end at a brightly lit window....

I can see the chamber...nice
I can see the rifling and nice smooth shiny bore extending towards the crown end of the barrel.
For the most part of the barrel ( until about an inch from the end ) the bore and rifling looks smooth and uniform.
The reflected light along the bore appears even and flat.

About an inch from the crown, the reflected light appears to change.
The bore no longer reflects light in a smooth even flat way.
It is not "dirty" or lead. It is just not as "flat" as the rest of the bore.
I would say about a 1/4 of an inch worth.
The rest of the barrel up to the crown then looks "normal" like the rest of the bore.

I am not looking to "reline" the barrel. This is a "new" gun and should be covered by S&W warranty.
Besides, I do not think we have any suitably qualified gun smiths in my state that could do this.
People have enough trouble just getting a trigger job done locally.

I have owned the M41 since Xmas 2014, so 18 months ago.
I first noticed the issue about 6 months after purchase.
At that time, i worked away and had only shot it maybe 3 or 4 times.

As a first time shooter, I was pretty excited just to be on the range.
Examining holes in targets was furthest from my mind.
I also thought that it would be more accurate than it is, but again, I figured it was just my inexperience, and never thought that there could be an issue with such a fine gun, let alone a PC version M41.

When I first saw the key holing, I was not really sure what I was looking at.
I thought it was just how the targets were, because the core-flute backing boards are pretty shot out behind the 9 and 10 rings, so I just thought it was maybe the way that the paper target was tearing.

As I said before, the issue is not 100 % consistent. Some weeks it is hardly noticeable, other times it is quite obvious.

I started to really look at the targets for the next few months and talked to more experienced shooters about it.
They were puzzled and had not seen key-holing at close range with none at longer ranges.

I happened to talk to a fellow club member who had also purchased a new M41 ( standard version )
He was also having key-holing issues, and he found that towards the end of his barrel, it appeared to be slightly bigger diameter that the rest of the bore.

He managed to borrow a slightly used barrel from the Aussie distributor, which fixed his problem.
He is also waiting for a replacement barrel ( under warranty, as well )


Hope I have managed to describe the issue clearly enough

Any help, advice etc will be very much appreciated.

Cheers all
David

David, I understand what your saying. Before I continue with my findings, I must state that my PC41 is a definite tack driver. However, on close examination of my barrel there definitely appears to be an anomaly of sorts. To me it looks like a very very faint and really slight deviation in the smoothness of the barrel. To be honest, it looks like a very tiny ring.

barrel question?

Find this discussion about possible barrel "defect" interesting given MY recent experience. Nothing to do with a Model 41 but recently purchased 1911 Pro Series 9mm. Had to return to S&W because of a "pin hole" defect in the barrel about an inch muzzle-ward of the chamber. After diligent but careful cleaning defect still remained. Gun returned and problem corrected. Perhaps some problem(s) with QC of barrel production - either in-house or 3rd party. In my case, concerns were addressed fully and corrected within a reasonably short time (less than a month from/to my door and all postage paid by S&W)

A bit of thread drift here, but I too had a defective M41 barrel from the get-go and have had it replaced by the importer (subject of a previous thread). Bullets were key holing, sent barrel back to Glycol who tested it and agreed that it was defective.

The barrel seemed to have a wide spot about 1/2" from the end. I could feel it when pushing a swab down the barrel as it suddenly pushed through more easily.

Glycol sent me a older slightly shop soiled but otherwise new barrel last year while waiting for new ones to come through from S&W, which I don't think they have received yet.

Absolutely no problems with the replacement barrel.

Re differences between the PC and standard M41's. I've tried comparing one of each side by side - my standard M41 with another club members PC M41 - and I honestly could not feel any difference in the action or trigger between the two and they both have pretty much the same temperamental ejection issues.

I have two of the PC M41's. One purchased two years ago, NIB via Gunbroker. The other was purchased two weeks ago from my LGS, NIB. The owners told me it just showed up from their distributor. I'm assuming S&W had a new production run. I was told by one of the S&W folks, about two years ago, they would do another run after their relocation was finished.

I can't tell any shooting difference in any of the M41's I've fired, both old non-PC and new PC models. They're all nice, well made, smooth operating and accurate handguns. One of the ladies at Larry'sGuns advised me to get an older M41 when I was searching for my first M41 in June, 2014. It seems she's a competitive shooter and found the older model to be more accurate.

I bought a NIB Hammerli Xesse Sport from her at that time. Found it to be a really accurate, smooth operating pistol. I picked up another Hammerli Xesse Sport NIB, the same day I picked up the newest M41. Actually, one of the owners of my LGS emailed me, to tell me they had received the Hammerli. And, he mentioned they'd just received the M41 and thought I'd like it. I told them if it was new, just hold it and I'd pick up both pistols.

I consider myself to be fortunate in having minimum gun problems. Had one split a barrel, probably a too hot load; and, another get scarred when a squib load stuck a .45ACP bullet and was damaged removing the bullet.

Had exactly the same deal with a 22 rifle barrel, caused by a little ice in the muzzle when fired, any obstruction can cause a bulge. You could see and feel the bulge when pulling a tight fitting patch or brush through the barrel.

Key holing

Just a thought when 22 cals "key hole". I had this problem with my model 617 revolver. I called S&W and talked to one of their technicians. He asked me how I cleaned and maintained my gun and when I told him that I usually put some gun oil on a cleaning swab and ran it though the barrel, then ran a dry swab through before storing it. He said that sometimes the remaining oil can accumulate on the "down" side of the barrel when stored, with or without some brass and lead. This can create some "drag" on the shot and causing abnormal rotation and result in the key holing seen in paper targets. He recommended using a high quality cleaning fluid with the capacity to clean out brass and lead (my dealer had some on hand that I used), then clean the barrel thoroughly with a brass brush. If that didn't work he said to mail the gun back...I didn't have to as the problem was eliminated with doing this a couple of times. I now don't use any oil on my 617 barrel, and have frequently used it for 6 years since with no repeat problems. Might be worth a try before returning it to the dealer. (The technician also told me that this is not as much of a problem with larger caliber barrels, but can be if not cleaned out properly.) Good Luck!