So, you've got the annoying trigger 'click', Now what!

BMCM

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Howdy Gents...

Well now, I've got this big10 on the healing bench for a checkup and one of the known issues...the trigger play spring is kaput!

The trigger play spring is that little copper colored thingy riveted to the forward end of your drawbar. Now that thingy is not actually copper but is in fact steel...sticks quite nicely to a magnet. The coloring is an effect of the heat treatment after it was punched & formed.

Anyway that spring is pretty thin and easily bent out of shape. It mics at 0.008" thick. If one goes scrubbing about vigorously in there with some implement like an M16 toothbrush, One is liable to mangle that spring. You can also wreck it by cocking the hammer and getting behind the trigger and pushing the trigger forward. Although I have no idea why someone would do that.

What you ought to know is once you have exceeded the "elastic limit' of the material, well... it's permanently buggered. Elastic Limit??? what the hell is that?:confused: you might ask. Well imagine a piece of straight steel rod, like a piece of wire coat hanger perhaps. Take it in hand and bend it a few degrees then release, it springs back straight right?. Now take and bend it a bunch, like 90° or so and release, Stays bent now doesn't it. You've exceeded the elastic limit of the steel.

That same principle applies to this tiny leaf spring. Bend it out of shape too far and it stays bent. You can try bending it back into shape but at this point is has been permanently weakened and will not stay there for long. The best course of action is to simply replace it, which happens to be where we are right now.

Yup, that's gonna have to come outa there:
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Not going to go into excavating the drawbar... Suffice to say it's a bit tedious getting it outa there. Except for a few bits, you basically need to detail strip the frame. But once you have it in hand were gonna need a little four square file with a safe edge to cut the head off that rivet.
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This four square file has a safe side. It's a square file but only cuts on three sides. I hold the drawbar in a machinists clamp and position the file so the safe side is facing the slot for the trigger hooks. That way should I slip while cutting on the rivet and hit that slot, no damage done. Just file at it until the rivet head is gone.
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Then take a little 1/16" pin punch and tap out the remnant.
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So far so good.
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No for the fix... You'll need this stuff. New play spring & rivet, a flat file with safe edges, and a small ball pien hammer. if you don't have a good small hammer a center punch can be helpful in starting to upset the rivet then carry on with what ever hammer you have that'll fit in there.
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Oh and a vise of course. You're gonna clamp the file in the vise with a safe edge up and enough sticking up above the jaws to support the drawbar while you're beating on it:eek: Note the copper sheeting the keep the hardened steel vise jaws off the file so we don't ruin it.
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Position your new parts in the drawbar. Small forceps are handy for getting the rivet in position. A sharp eye may note that this aint the drawbar we started with. Well that's cause that drawbar was junk and headed for the scrap bin. But that's another story.:rolleyes:
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Now over to the vise. Invert the assembly of parts onto the file edge. Use those forceps or something to keep the rivet from falling out as you turn it over.
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Then take you're little ball pien hammer and gently upset the rivet.
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Pro Tip: Just get the rivet snug such that it's just tight enough to permit turning the spring. Then flip the drawbar over and make sure the spring is not cocked to one side or the other. Straighten it as needed then turn back over head down against the file and carry on finishing upsetting the rivet snugging everything up.

All done and ready ready to go in the gun.
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Cheers
Bill
 
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Guys, Bill did this for the trigger play spring in my 4566 a couple of months ago. Seeing how he did it impresses me to no end -- the specific tooling, the obvious care, and most of all, the knowledge of what to do and what not to do. He is a master craftsman, and the pictures and description speak more highly of his work than any words I could cobble together to recommend him.

Thanks again, my friend.
 
"Upset the rivet." If you hit me with a ball pean hammer, I'd be upset too! :eek:

On more serious note, that's a very nice tutorial. That makes it look doable for someone who has moderate skill and some pretty common tools.

The only clicky trigger play spring I had was on a 457 that I recently sold. It did the pencil eraser fix on it a few years ago and it was fine after that until I sold it.

If had one that broke, it would be heading to MS as soon as I could arrange it. I heard a rumor that there's a guy down that who is pretty handy with these "obsolete" semi auto pistols. ;)
 
Great job! Where did you get the spring? My 4506 developed the "click" and I cured it by fine polishing the "V" notch in the draw bar but I probably also need to replace my spring. I had no idea they were still available!
 
Very timely

When I took down the 908 to replace the sear spring and disconnector, I noticed that tiny spring on the drawbar. I vividly remember saying out loud, "How in the world (no, that wasn't the precise word I uttered) would I ever replace one of those?"

Thanks for another excellent tutorial. :)
 
If had one that broke, it would be heading to MS as soon as I could arrange it. I heard a rumor that there's a guy down that who is pretty handy with these "obsolete" semi auto pistols. ;)
Road trip!!! :D :D :D I'm ready! :)

You know we kid about it, but it's the only way to get our beloved-but-clicky 3rd Gens down to BMCM without incurring incurring a staggering amount in shipping and transfer fees. :o I would conservatively say that 1/3 to 1/2 of my 3rd Gen fleet could use BMCM's services in that regard... but I'd be broke before the guns even got to him. :(

And then there's the other (even bigger) issue. :o Once I would have managed to get the guns down to him, you know damn well that we're not going to just stop at trigger play spring replacement. ;) That would barely be the beginning! :D

This is why I've said in the past: If only BMCM were my next door neighbor! :D :D :D Hey, I can dream, can't I? :p
 
Howdy Gents...

Well now, I've got this big10 on the healing bench for a checkup and one of the known issues...the trigger play spring is kaput! ...
Cheers
Bill

A couple thoughts.

First, a while back I noticed on one parts vendor website that they were apparently selling bright "stainless" colored factory trigger play springs. FWIW, back when as the factory was finishing fine-tuning the FBI guns, they developed a bright & shiny, plain colored spring which was supposedly stronger than the copper colored springs. I never learned the alloy used to make it. Supposedly, it kept its tension better and better addressed the "trigger click" in the FBI's 10mm guns, and had been created for their guns. It wasn't a normal stock part.

The interesting part ...

It didn't have a part number, and the LE contacts and parts guys with whom I talked didn't even know it existed. (I asked a couple of them.) I only found out about it (and saw one) when attending an armorer class hosted by another S&W armorer at another agency, who was pretty senior to me. He gave me a name and a number to call at the factory. I called and left a message. When I got a return call, the first question I was asked was where and how I'd learned of the spring's existence. :D

I told him (of course). He chuckled and asked me how many I wanted. Let's just say I got enough to replace the springs in my own 9, .40 & .45 guns, and some guns belonging to a couple friends and family. ;)

Anyway, the picture of the springs I saw on some parts vendor website looked like the same spring (no copper color), and it wouldn't surprise me if when S&W was selling off a lot of their excess 3rd gen parts stock, that the remaining supply of those older trigger play springs got pulled out from whatever desk they'd been kept, and they were sold off, too.

Now, also bear in mind that the trigger play spring only reduces the single action "slop" of the reset/cocked trigger, and has even been removed from some guns (like those of the original CHP 4006's, after a while). The last contract for the CHP 4006TSW's were even produced, at their request, without trigger play springs installed in the drawbars. The guns function without them, with or without the "click".

The "click", BTW, isn't limited to the 10/.45 guns, although I was told that something about the width of the 10/.45 frame and the standard drawbar seemed more likely to sometimes lend itself to it happening. I've also seen it occur in an occasional double stack 9, from time to time.

It's just the front tips of the trigger's ears slipping just up above the top edge of the drawbar's V-notch, instead of remaining within the tall notch, and then as the trigger ears drop back down into the notch, the "click" occurs as they pass back down over the top edge.

Oh yeah, when armorers are taught to replace the trigger play spring, they're usually taught to do it using a cheap $10 vise that clamps to the edge of the hosting agency's tables, the pillar file from the armorer kit (which has a safe edge), a ball peen hammer and a 1/16" pin punch. The drawbar is inverted between the vise jaws, to support the shoulder, and the 1/16" pin punch is used to drive the rivet out the top of the drawbar head. (Yes, sometimes the small pin punch might be bent using it in this manner.)

Once you've done it the right way, it's a relatively simple task. The trick is not to lose the new rivet during the process :confused: , and not to flatten it overly much (but just enough to hold the spring base flat and secure). It also helps to make sure the spring is pointed the right direction :eek: , and the inverted drawbar head is kept flat on the top safe edge of the file while lightly whacking on the rivet to secure it. ;)

Nice pics BMCM. ;)
 
You know the man's an expert when he makes it look SO easy you foolishly say to yourself:

"I bet I could do that"

LOL
Dirty Harry said it best. A man has got to know his limitations. And believe me, I know mine. :o

Rather than attempt to fix the nuisance clicky problem, reality is that I have had to learn to live with it. :o

It's not that bad after you finally come to accept that: a) You can't fix the problem yourself without screwing it all up... and, b) You can't afford the two-way shipping and transfer fees to send them all down to BMCM for the fix to be done correctly. :(

So I have become more or less immune to the problem. Such is life at my advanced age and with my financial realities. :cool:
 
Well, WHAT'S THE PART NUMBER?
Inquiring minds want to know.

I was told by the man who controlled that special trigger return spring that the company had never given it a part number, as it was just produced for the FBI guns way back when.

If they've finally cleaned out those springs and sold them off to their vendors, then the vendor would assign whatever part number they wished, I suppose. I don't remember which parts vendor showed the picture of the bright polished "plain" stainless spring a year or so ago, though.
 
Would have been helpful if you'd indicated somewhere what gun or guns you were referring to in the opening post.

Had no clue throughout the entire thing till I read responses to your post.
I have an old 4516, but never noticed whatever "annoying trigger click" you refer to, and had no idea what gun you were going through.
Denis
 
Would have been helpful if you'd indicated somewhere what gun or guns you were referring to in the opening post.

Had no clue throughout the entire thing till I read responses to your post.
I have an old 4516, but never noticed whatever "annoying trigger click" you refer to, and had no idea what gun you were going through.
Denis


Really?
Perhaps you failed to take note of the first sentence of post #1 where I indicated a 'big10' was the subject of this repair. A knowledgeable person would infer that implies some arm in the 10xx model range.

That being said, the specific model is not even remotely relevant to this repair. Perhaps you are unaware that the trigger play spring applies across the entire lineup of S&W metal frame pistols gen1 through gen3, notwithstanding some special LE orders.

Since you have never noticed 'whatever' annoying trigger click I am addressing with this repair, I can reasonably speculate either there is nothing wrong with your 4516 or, you are not sufficiently familiar with the mechanism to recognize when something is out of sorts.

Cheers
Bill
 
I have one of those silver "special" trigger return springs. IIRC it is stainless steel. I was told it was a prototype.

I will dig it out this weekend and post a pic. Regards 18DAI
 
I had no clue whatever what a "big 10" might be, and no idea which model or models that fix might apply to.
I wasn't even sure it was for an older pistol, and no- I am not intimately familiar with the insides of those things.
My 4516 has never, to the best of my recollection, exhibited whatever the click is, and I've never taken a metal Smith apart to that degree of detail.
Denis
 
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