2nd Gen Half Cock Notch

GaryS · Dec 11, 2018

I'm in what is going to be a pointless discussion on Facebook. Someone asked about swapping out a spurless hammer for a spurred one.

Based on what I've read here and what is stamped on 3rd Gen replacement hammers, I said that 2nd and 3rd Gen hammers were interchangeable (in most cases), but that 1st Gen hammers were not.

Someone then popped in and said that his 669 had a half cock notch so a 1st Gen hammer should fit.

I think he might be confusing half cock with the single action and double action notches on the 2nd and 3rd Gen hammers.

So, did the 2nd Gen hammers have a "half cock" notch? I've decided not to continue the discussion on FB, but want to be sure I have the correct information.

Thanks.

snw19_357 · Dec 11, 2018

Yes, 2nd gen (and 1st) hammers have a half-cock notch.

A 669 hammer is spurless but serrated so you could cock it from half-cock. A 6906 hammer is spurless but did not have the half-cock notch and did not have serrations.

(I'd happily trade them a spurred 5906 hammer (no half-cock) or a spurred 659 hammer (w/ half-cock) for their 669 hammer.)

armorer951 · Dec 11, 2018

Some additional info from the S&W armorer's manual........

(It probably should say "the only purpose"....also, some folks refer to this as the "safety" notch)

N4KVE · Dec 11, 2018

Just to add to this, I picked up a 469. Hating spurless hammers, I looked for a 459 hammer, but couldn’t find one. I did find a 5904 hammer, & installed it in the gun. I did lose the half cock notch, but couldn’t care less. The gun works fine. I did make similar modifications on my 3913, & 4516, but did use 3rd Gen hammers. Best gun mods I ever did. GARY

barbara_em · Dec 11, 2018

I routinely carry my 469 on half cock. I find that it gives me a little better control with that first long DA pull. And as for cocking a 2nd generation spurless hammer from the half-cock notch by way of the serrations, it can be done. It requires me to use considerable force with my thumb and if I tried it in haste, I'd probably wind up breaking my nail. Not cool!

GaryS · Dec 11, 2018

Thanks to everyone. I learned something today, although it confuses me that a 3rd Gen hammer will work in a 2nd Gen, and I presume vice versa.

N4KVE · Dec 11, 2018

barbara_em said:
I routinely carry my 469 on half cock. I find that it gives me a little better control with that first long DA pull. And as for cocking a 2nd generation spurless hammer from the half-cock notch by way of the serrations, it can be done. It requires me to use considerable force with my thumb and if I tried it in haste, I'd probably wind up breaking my nail. Not cool!

Which is why I swapped hammers. No broken nails. GARY

JohnHL · Dec 12, 2018

GaryS said:
Thanks to everyone. I learned something today, although it confuses me that a 3rd Gen hammer will work in a 2nd Gen, and I presume vice versa.

When you converted that 3rd gen hammer to DAO, you filed off the single action notch.

If instead, you had filed a new, additional notch above the single action notch on your 3rd gen hammer, you would have created a 1st and 2nd gen hammer.

That is the only mechanical difference in all of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen TDA (DA/SA) hammers.

Yes, there are differences in color, material, and where you place your thumb, but dimensionally and operationally they are the same with the exception of the additional notch.

John

Merc6 · Dec 13, 2018

GaryS said:
I'm in what is going to be a pointless discussion on Facebook. Someone asked about swapping out a spurless hammer for a spurred one.

Based on what I've read here and what is stamped on 3rd Gen replacement hammers, I said that 2nd and 3rd Gen hammers were interchangeable (in most cases), but that 1st Gen hammers were not.

Someone then popped in and said that his 669 had a half cock notch so a 1st Gen hammer should fit.

I think he might be confusing half cock with the single action and double action notches on the 2nd and 3rd Gen hammers.

So, did the 2nd Gen hammers have a "half cock" notch? I've decided not to continue the discussion on FB, but want to be sure I have the correct information.

Thanks.

That would have been me.

barbara_em said:
I routinely carry my 469 on half cock. I find that it gives me a little better control with that first long DA pull. And as for cocking a 2nd generation spurless hammer from the half-cock notch by way of the serrations, it can be done. It requires me to use considerable force with my thumb and if I tried it in haste, I'd probably wind up breaking my nail. Not cool!

I was told not to run off "Half cocked" because the hammer stays in an exposed state vs full or resting and more susceptible to being hit by and outside force. it sure does help on that 1st DA pull tho.

H Richard · Dec 13, 2018

I agree with the not particularly liking the flat hammers. This 469 has a 3rd gen hammer and it works just fine. No, I don't know the method used to strip the black finish off the frame, it was done before I bought it.

GaryS · Dec 14, 2018

Merc6 said:
That would have been me.

My confusion came from seeing the stamping on the 3rd Gen hammers that says "Only for 669, 3913, 4513,..."

So, it appears that a half cock hammer can be used on a 2nd Gen, but a none half cock hammer can't be used on a 1st Gen.

Tricky S&W engineers.

I like the bobbed hammers on guns intended for concealed carry, so they don't bother me. I have an early 3914NL with those little serrations on the hammer. As someone else points out, they're nail breakers if you try to cock the hammer.

JohnHL · Dec 14, 2018

GaryS said:
So, it appears that a half cock hammer can be used on a 2nd Gen, but a none half cock hammer can't be used on a 1st Gen.

Half cock hammers were used on 2nd gen pistols although the firing pin safety adopted on the 2nd gen pistols made the half cock safety notch redundant.

A non half cock (3rd gen) hammer can be used on a 1st gen pistol, but you would lose the half cock safety feature (a problem because the 1st gen pistols did not have the firing pin safety).

John

oink · Dec 14, 2018

I've carried my 669 on half cock since it was new and they first came out. I think it's a 1st year but not sure TAJ50XX. I also carried my 659 on half cock, also an oldie A8146XX.

Neither would have any collector value as they saw a lot of use, particularly the 669. I moved on to other duty guns but the 669 remained my BU and OD for many years and even served as my duty gun during much of my tour on the Marine Unit.

Many years ago I had to send one or both of them back under recall as you couldn't engage the hammer drop safety from half cock. I didn't realize it was a defect until I got the letter as I had learned to just pull the hammer back a smidge to engage the drop safety.

Sorry I wandered but yeah both had half cocks. Putting on half cock improves the first double action shot substantially. And I never had any problem grabbing the hammer on the 669 when on half cock.

N4KVE · Dec 14, 2018

GaryS said:
My confusion came from seeing the stamping on the 3rd Gen hammers that says "Only for 669, 3913, 4513,..."

Those markings have nothing to do with what will work or not. They are simply there so the person who is on the assembly line can quickly see what hammer to put into what gun. GARY

RedCardinal · Dec 18, 2018

My 1076 has a half-cock notch so the FBI must have determined it to be useful.

2nd Gen Half Cock Notch

GaryS

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