What happens when titanium nitride wears off Briley bushings ?

4T5GUY · Aug 30, 2020

I personally haven’t put enough rounds through any of my S&W pistols that have Briley bushings to see an impact. But recently I’ve seen pictures of PC pistols that look like the the TiN has, well worn off. This can be seen on frontal views and I just can’t imagine that the internal bearing surface looks any better.

What do you call a Briley bushing that isn’t TiN coated anymore and what is the value of it at this point? I’m NOT putting them down, (when new,(?)) but are they still useful after they wear? Are there replacement bushings available? They’re “hand fit” so would that be an issue too? I guess I can contact Briley for the current/best answer but I thought I’d run it by here first.

Jim

armorer951 · Aug 30, 2020

I doubt that you could actually wear out the insert, but if the gauge in the insert became overspec in size, you could just purchase a new insert (ring) for the bushing....or a new bushing/ring combination if necessary. They come in .001" increment sizes.

Briley MFG - 1911 Auto Spherical Ring Only

4T5GUY · Aug 30, 2020

OK that makes sense to me.

When/if the TiN is gone, it’s still good to go, correct? As long as the ring is within tolerances.

Thanks for the reply. I’ve always had the assumption that Titanium Nitride, even in a “coating”, would be harder and longer lasting than the barrels it’s surrounding. Just wondering about the benefit now of the TiN coating in the long run.

Jim

armorer951 · Aug 30, 2020

I believe so, as long as the tolerances stay within acceptable limits.

These are a gunsmith's dream BTW, as once the pre-fitting is done, the final fit between the bushing ring insert and the barrel is completed by polishing the barrel. The final result.....there is no front gauge at all at the barrel/bushing interface.

4T5GUY · Aug 30, 2020

Sure of course. I really do understand. As a kid I originally was into Colt .45’s, (and still am I suppose,) and enjoyed fitting parts including bushings and everything else that I got intentionally “over size” or “undersized”.

I’m still just curious about the “magic” of the Briley bushings.

Once the Titanium Nitride is worn off and or gone, what is going on? I guess a Briley spherical bushing that’s no longer TiN coated is still an optimal choice.

Jim

CALREB · Aug 31, 2020

Ive got a 98 PPC9 that has to have over to 150,000 round through it . Ive never noticed any wear when I clean it (never really looked). No loss of accuracy though just took it out to sight in for bullseye distinguished. Still does about 1.8 " at 50 with 147 gr. I will have to look at the bushing close. The only problem Ive ever heard is the bushing coming loose. I keep them lubed up.
I was walking back fom the line at Nationals once and found one at the 50 yard line. Stuck it on my little finger. When I got back to our camp no one was missing theirs. Then a guy at the camp next to ours yelled out the he had lost his. I made a mandrel out of brass and check mine from time to time. I never thought of trying to buy one.

Sevens · Sep 1, 2020

All the numbers you just posted pop the eyeballs out of my head!!!

Can you share your 147 grain load that does so well? Every detail if you don’t mind... case, primer, bullet, powder & charge, COAL? I haven’t yet tried a 147gr in any of my PC 9mm pistols.

toddcfii · Sep 1, 2020

I talked to BMCM about this. From memory he said that the way you would know if it had gotten worn was a decrease in accuracy. And it would be the barrel that had worn. The solution would be to replace the bushing with one that was smaller internal diameter.

Erocksmash · Sep 1, 2020

I have some ill look and see what they look like later.... my most recent shorty 40 there is no TIN on the outside of the bushing, only the inside... ill look at others as well and look. Some I have had they are obviously worn but not enough to affect anything....

s&wchad · Sep 1, 2020

A friend of mine works at a plant that does nitride coatings. The military spec’s it for aircraft parts and cannon barrels and it supposedly increases the life of the parts substantially.

TiN is an ultra-thin coating (1 - 5 microns) that actually changes the properties of the base metal below the surface. It makes it harder than carbide (somewhere around Rockwell 85c), but doesn’t make the base material brittle. I would think the barrel would wear long before the bushing.

Sevens · Sep 1, 2020

Is it possible that what we see in the picture is simply schmegma and not the titanium nitride coating “wearing off” ?

I’ve seen the before also, but to be totally honest, I’d have to go to the safe to see if it’s on any of my PC guns because I just don’t recall.

4T5GUY · Sep 1, 2020

Sevens said:
Is it possible that what we see in the picture is simply schmegma and not the titanium nitride coating “wearing off” ?

Maybe on some, others I don’t think so.

Here is a closeup of my oldest Briley bushing equipped PC. The outside is worn as well as the inside. Not much TiN left huh?

I never paid that much attention till I started seeing pictures of ones that looked “worn”, (on the outside.)

I’m sure all is good but sometimes I just wonder about things I don’t know about.

I should have pictured the barrel also which I now have. I also need to say it’s still very accurate.

Jim

Erocksmash · Sep 1, 2020

4T5GUY said:
Maybe on some, others I don’t think so.

Here is a closeup of my oldest Briley bushing equipped PC. The outside is worn as well as the inside. Not much TiN left huh?

I never paid that much attention till I started seeing pictures of ones that looked “worn”, (on the outside.)

I’m sure all is good but sometimes I just wonder about things I don’t know about.

I should have pictured the barrel also which I now have. I also need to say it’s still very accurate.

Jim

Maybe its the glare I'm seeing, is that bushing cracked?

armorer951 · Sep 1, 2020

From the photo, it looks like the bushing was ground inside during fitting. Actually, I believe the supplied barrel ring should be specified to the same diameter inside as the O.D. of the barrel, and then the barrel polished, and "final fit" to the ring (insert).....instead of the other way around.

4T5GUY · Sep 1, 2020

Erocksmash said:
Maybe its the glare I'm seeing, is that bushing cracked?

Nope not cracked. Just polished and shiny.

Looks like I turned my original question into a more personal one than I thought.

I’ve just looked a five more pistols/bushings from oldest, (more used,) to newest condition PC pistols. I stopped cause even the older more used ones show NO sign of internal bushing wear. I stopped looking because the rest are like new if not new pistols.

Hmm

Jim

Erocksmash · Sep 1, 2020

Just took a peek at mine... all seem to be in great shape no real indication of wearing... the DPA however has a slight line where I guess it consistently wore in 1 spot.

Only the shorty .40 has no TIN on the outside of the bushing... its a mystery...

4T5GUY · Sep 1, 2020

I am very sorry for troubling you all so much. But I have, (obviously,) more questions now and I hope all the answers will help anyone that has these wonderful PC examples that have Briley bushings.

The Briley bushing and barrel I posted pictures of were of a 419 total PC run in 1999. This pistol left in March 1999 to RSR and was returned in early August 1999. (Didn’t sell.) In late 1999 it became a salesman sample to S&W salesman Ken Powell. It was finally delivered to Cecile Firearms and bought by the person who sold it a while back. I have it now. At some point in it’s early life did the PC take a short cut in “grinding” the spherical bushing instead of
the barrel? There is no evidence of it being shot much. I don’t think anyone messed with it other than the PC.

Should I be concerned about the wear, (or lack of TiN,) of the bushing? As I’ve said it still is a very accurate pistol.

Thanks again all for the input.

Jim

Steve912 · Sep 1, 2020

armorer951 said:
From the photo, it looks like the bushing was ground inside during fitting. Actually, I believe the supplied barrel ring should be specified to the same diameter inside as the O.D. of the barrel, and then the barrel polished, and "final fit" to the ring (insert).....instead of the other way around.

It would seem that way, since grinding on the TiN layer would
probably remove it---and matches the other comment about
the barrel (softer surface than bushing) wearing, to cause slop.

4T5GUY · Sep 2, 2020

I would think so. But “s&wchad” has kinda explained that the TiN goes into the surface some what. I believe the explanation of the properties. I thank him for adding input to my original question although at that point I didn’t know it would pertain to me.

Should I get a new bushing from Briley and hope I can fit it, or not worry about it since no one since the PC in 1999 worked on it? It’s pretty well scarfed up but original I assume.? It is the most tightest fitting barrel to bushing combo I checked out today. I think you all that have them know what I mean.

Jim

toddcfii · Sep 2, 2020

I say the old saw applies: “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.”

What happens when titanium nitride wears off Briley bushings ?

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