My KSD Grips have arrived!

As some folks here may recall, a few weeks ago I posted a thread asking about easy methods for grip replacement, which ultimately ended with me ordering some KSD Grips online. Well, those grips have arrived today!

The grips look much nicer in person than they did in the product picture online, they feel sturdy/strong, and give off the pleasant aroma of sawdust, machinery, and a subtle hint of tobacco. The checkering isn't very aggressive, as it is perfectly flat and merely engraved into the surface of the otherwise smooth wood along with the markings. However, I bought these grips mostly for looks, and they have that for sure.

Only problem is, (gee whiz) I still haven't ordered a gunsmithing punch kit so that I can safely/easily install said grips. All that I really need is a 1/8" brass punch and a mallet, but I figure that I'm overdue for a proper gunsmithing punch kit with an assortment of punches.
I've looked around online, but it seems like everything I look at has some negative reviews with a few folks complaining about the punches being too soft and bending/deforming when used. These days, it's nearly impossible to trust anything you read in online reviews between all the shills, bashers, trolls, and downright ignorant people, so I was hoping for some suggestions from you folks here, if you please.
I'm just looking for something inexpensive that will get the job done, as I hold no aspirations of becoming a gunsmith or making frequent use of such tools, although I would like them to last. So can anyone suggest an inexpensive kit for a beginner like me? If so, then I would appreciate it.

Anyway, here's a pic of the grips...
DISCLAIMER: I'm not sure if these grips are actually made by KSD, but they're of the same style and were made in Turkey, so I suspect that KSD just sells them unofficially as private sellers on various websites to avoid a potential lawsuit over unlicensed use of the S&W logo/3rd Gen grip design. However, they could just be clones, so I dunno.

These are somewhat interesting as... when KSD first started, they made wood copies of EXACTLY the OEM Delrin grip, including the S&W logo and “Smith & Wesson” lettering and they looked amazing... and they earned themselves a cease and desist letter from S&W who guards their name and logo rabidly (as is their right.)

KSD morphed the logo in to something decent looking but not the classic S&W and they got rid of the lettering.

So to see these ordered and arrived now is pretty peculiar, and it makes me curious about why, or if someone new to KSD made a call that maybe they shouldn’t have. But not my circus and not my monkeys, so let them fight about it if they like.

As for removing the stock grip pin, it’s held in place by main spring (hammer spring) tension, and removing it isn’t difficult. Lacking proper punches, a good sized drill bit will work. It’s not exactly like removing a normal hammer or trigger pin — this pin was designed to be removed.

I have heard, “from a friend” that they will still do the S&W Logo. You need to do the email thing with them. “My friend” also sent a picture of what they wanted. Seemed to not be a problem.

When you get ready to install them make sure the grip pin hole is big enough in diameter for the factory pin you’re using. Sometimes the grip pin hole needs to be bigger, just fractionally so the pin does not splinter the wood around the grip pin hole. Oil/grease the pin first when installing it if the hole seems to tight.

You might need to spread the grip gently when installing it. It may seem impossibly tight but it will go on.

Jim

@sevens
I bought these grips on an online retail website, not KSD's website, and the seller didn't identify themselves as KSD, but were based out of the same area in Turkey, so I assume that it's just KSD's sly little way of continuing to sell one of their most popular styles of grips with an alibi should S&W ever care enough to file a lawsuit against them.

I know that I could use something other than a punch to drive out the pin, but I want to do it properly, and I'm in no big hurry, so I figured that I would use this as an excuse to quit dragging my feet and get a few cheap gunsmithing tools to more easily facilitate other modifications in the future.

@4T5Guy
One thing that I noticed immediately when I unwrapped my grips is that the pinhole appears larger in diameter than ones I've seen in pictures in the past, so I'm thinking that KSD (or whoever made these) has since made the pinholes on their grips larger in response to feedback that the pinholes were too small. Hopefully, I won't have to widen them, but I'm prepared to do so if need be. I already planned on greasing the pin on final assembly, just to make it easier and to hopefully avoid having to widen the pinholes.

I'm not so sure that these grips will spread, (they seem pretty ridgid) but I'll try it if necessary.

My most immediate concern is finding some suitable tools for the procedure, but hunting online is a pain since every single product has some negative reviews by ornery unsatisfied customers or trolls who insist that it's a bad product and that nobody should buy it.
Obviously, the last thing that I want to do is spend money on junk that's just going to break on me without getting the job done, and if reviews are any indication then spending more doesn't always ensure a higher quality product.

Do you have any extra grip pins? Use one of those to move the pin you want to remove.

If nothing else till you get a drift punch just use a drill bit. Obviously you’d want to use the shank end to remove/ install the grip pin.

Jim

Unfortunately no, I never saw a need for any other grip pins, so I never bought any spare.

That being said, the pin protrudes quite a bit on either side with the Hogues removed, so I could probably use needle nose Pliers to remove them if I wanted, but then how would I get them back in?
Like I said, I just want to do it using the proper tools, that way I can mitigate any risk of damaging the grips, the pin, or even the finish when I install them.

Sorry I keep responding.

No, NOT needle nose pliers.

Just go to your nearest Ace Hardware or whatever and get a quality, base set of punches.

These three do most of what I want and I try them first before I go to my others. They were @ $12.00 and came in a cheap plastic pouch. Just these three work for most all pin drifting and magazine baseplate removing. Start with something like this and then later expand if you need too.

Jim

No need to apologize. Thank you, that's just the sort of response that I'm looking for, recommendations for products that folks use and can personally attest to the quality.

My set of brass pin punches was the cheapest set I could find on line.

Chinese. Under $10.00 if memory serves.

I haven't broken or deformed any of them and the 1/8" punch gets the most use by a wide margin.

Don't be concerned with breakage.

They are brass, and therefore softer than the pin it is driving.

If something is going to deform, by design it is the brass punch.

Besides, they are not for starting a stubborn pin like the extractor pin.

Use a steel pin punch for that.

Brass punches are for moving things that were designed to move without too much force.

Buy a cheap set and a cheap brass hammer if you want (you can strike a brass punch with a small steel hammer).

And then replace the grips.

John

When they first started up, I had corresponded quite a bit with the KSD guys in Turkey. They were always quick to respond and very helpful.
Their grips were first quality.
FWIW,

Well, I ordered a cheap set of brass punches and a nice Lyman hammer, so I should be set. As soon as everything arrives I'll put the grips on my gun and I'll probably just post it in the photo thread.

I put a set on my 1006, I really like them.

Ten2six said:

I put a set on my 1006, I really like them.

Click to expand...

Awesome look ... I really need a set of those for my 1006. But I'd really like to get a pair for my minty model 645.

Does anyone know if KSD (or whoever) makes grips like those for the 645?

Frank Black said:

Awesome look ... I really need a set of those for my 1006. But I'd really like to get a pair for my minty model 645.

Does anyone know if KSD (or whoever) makes grips like those for the 645?

Click to expand...

I did a quick search online and couldn't find anything quite like them, but then again that's because they're modeled after the 3rd Gen grips whereas the 645 is a 2nd Gen pistol, so it's not really surprising that there wouldn't be 3rd Gen-style grips for a 2nd Gen gun.
However, I have seen some very nice 2nd Gen grips online that you might like. Just try Googling "S&W 645 wood grips" or try searching for them on individual online stores.

Frank Black said:

Does anyone know if KSD (or whoever) makes grips like those for the 645?

Click to expand...

Factory 745 grip panels look, feel and work really nice on 645’s. They can still be found here and there. Sometimes sellers don’t know what they have.

My 645 pictured is wearing “659” grip panels. (Or so they were marked.)

Jim

Turkey also has the best knock-off Rolex's that will make a jeweler look twice.
Very nice grips, regardless.

They responded to me they had no grips to fit my 469. But I have their grips on my CS9 and 908s

Within the last couple years, I ordered a set of the 5906 grips out of Turkey. The straight grained Walnut set I received had a checkering pattern similar to the factory grips, though the diamonds were flat topped. I figured the checkering, logo, etc. was cut with a LASER. They were just a bit thicker than the factory grips, didn't care for the curved back strap, and I didn't end up using them. Still, nice grips I thought.

Didn't order any knock-off Rolex watches though

So I figured that I would update this thread, because I know that some of you were probably losing sleep in anticipation of me finally getting these grips installed. Ah, but seriously, at this point I'm most just updating this for the sake of anyone in the future who may be thinking of getting some of these grips for their 5906/4006 and have been searching for information on the subject.

My punches and hammer arrived awhile ago, but today was the first opportunity I had to actually install the grips. So I went to work, got the hogues off without a fuss, drove the pin out, then quickly discovered a problem which has lead to a major setback. While the pinholes on the grip are large enough for the grip pin, the pinhole of the little mainspring retaining block which came with the grips are extremely undersized. What's more, the material that the retainer is made out of appears to be particle board, and I fear that any attempt to enlarge the pinhole would compromise it's structural integrity.

So now what I'm thinking that I'll have to do is modify the grips slightly in order to fit the mainspring retainer of the Hogue grips, which is frankly a far superior design. Honestly, I wish that KSD themselves would have just copied the Hogue mainspring retainer, as it will remain in place without the pin, held in place by spring tension, thus eliminating the need for the user to hold the retainer in place during installation. Heck, I wish that the whole design of the grips were based off the Hogues because they're just so much easier to install/remove. Regardless, I simply cannot install the grips at this time. Maybe I'll try to enlarge the pinhole on the retainer later on, but I honestly think that it would either disintegrate in the process since it seems to be made of nothing but sawdust and epoxy, or otherwise weaken it to the point that spring tension alone would cause it to fracture. So yeah, the best solution would probably be for me to wittle away at the grips interior until it will interface with the Hogue retainer, but that's a project for another day.

In conclusion, to anyone who is considering buying some of these KSD(-like?) Grips online for their 5906/4006, just be aware that the pinholes on the mainspring retainer are undersized and that the part is a chintzy material which may not even be able to withstand having the pinhole enlarged or hold up in the aftermath.
Also, to KSD, (and/or whoever makes these grips) please either copy the design of the Hogue grips in a future revision, or at least make sure that the pinhole in the mainspring retainer is the proper size. Honestly, certainly you could at least buy a 3rd Gen grip pin online to ensure that the pinhole on your grips is the correct size. (I know they'll probably never see this, but KSD was an active member here at one time, so why not?)

Agree. I’ve read reports here of folks installing the pin and the wood chipping due to this issue.