I've been after a S&W 1911 and recently found this one, SKU 170261. Interested in any thoughts on this particular model. Can we tell if it was built during the days of the "real" Performance Center, or is it a more recent iteration? Thanks.

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That one runs the ragged edge of the end of the real Performance Center. When that pistol debuted, the serial prefix was “JMB” and yes, that was done on purpose. The other somewhat obvious difference in the early ones were the odd, non-standard hammer design. The original guns had a spur that was split, hard for me to put in to words but instead of one knurled spur, it had a left and a right side to the spur. I have no idea -why-, could simply be the taste of the supplier at that time.

One item that I’ve always found interesting is that the true PC guns going all the way back to the beginning (circa-1992) clear through to the very end (2008/2009) used the Briley titanium spherical bushing. And yet, the PC 1911 never did — at least while the PC was still in existence.

The later “PC” 1911 pistols (the red grip, blue grip and ones with cuts in the slide) did use the Briley bushing designed for a 1911.

If that pistol has an end label on the box or fired case envelope, you can be the judge if it came from the REAL PC or not. If it’s 2007, I’ll say yes. 2008 or 2009 and I’d say boy I don’t know. 2010 or later and I believe no way.

I’d rather have the JMB prefix. However, I would much rather have this one than the red/blue gripped ones.

Box has the end label, but how would I tell from that? There is no date on it.

Is there no four digit number under “SPEC ORDER” ?

Nothing that says SPEC ORDER as far as I can see.

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there is a thread about 'julian date' somewhere that shows actual production date.

April 30, 2010 seems likely, given that “0120” on the end label.

Surprised that you don’t have a fired case envelope in the box.

An e-mail to S&W with that serial number will probably return a similar date.

OK, so 2010, about what I would have guessed. Probably not a proper PC gun but still a decent piece. It's super tight, guess I need to get shooting.


Thanks guys

I purchased (a few weeks ago) a brand new Smith & Wesson Performance Center 1911 SKU# 170343. This is stainless, vents in the slide, blue G10 grips, 5", 45acp, Briley bushing. I picked it up at a local gun store for $100 under retail, so I paid ($1549). I was all geared up to buy a Dan Wesson Pointman, but I saw this and was quite impressed by a few key things.

I used to build 1911s a LONG time ago before my company became a "double-action revolvers only" focused company. I was also (within the last 10 years) contracted to build a company's top-of-the-line pistol. The pistol wasn't extremely expensive, it did cost some money, but retail was a little over $1K. They would supply the parts (some oversize) and I would do the final fitting and assembly for $XXX per pistol. I've had a fair amount of experience with 1911s. I am NOT boasting, I am simply qualifying myself. Now, about this S&W PC 1911 pistol...

It's a very attractive 1911. It is comfortable in the hand. It manages recoil very well. It's highly ergonomic. The slide/frame/barrel relationship locks up consistently TIGHT. The trigger was a pleasant 2.75 lbs, but with some creep. After about 200-250 rounds it settled into a 3.5 lb trigger that broke like a glass rod. My main complaint? I wish the trigger bow had been fit better. The trigger slopped around to the point that I finally adjusted the bow. Examining all of the internals revealed a MIM amusement park. I have learned, however, that there's nothing wrong with good MIM parts. We'll see how it goes over the long haul. The sad reality is, that the retail price point of $1695 doesn't allow for well-machined parts. If the machined parts are going to be rough and dimensionally substandard, give me high-quality MIM any day of the week. Now, how was all of this stuff going to add up on the range?

I am stunned. Immediately after buying this I thought "Why did I do this? They won't take it back. I OWN this thing now. I wanted a Dan, but then I buy a Smith. It's a NICE Smith. I hope it gets the job done". I now feel no such regret. I don't know what a Dan would have offered that this doesn't. I own (well, the corporation owns) a Ransom Machine Rest. With this Smith, with 2 different handloads (1 using a hard cast 200gr SWC, the other a jacketed 230gr flat nose) 5 shot groups of 1" and even less were routine business at 25 yds.

I also own a couple of Gold Cups. 1 is the Trophy and 1 is the National Match. The grouping capability was not in the same league as these. I found that 1.5 - 1.75" was as good as they would do. A man at the club bought a brand new Trophy and that would get down to 1.25" roughly. The frame/slide/barrel lockup relationship is not as tight as the Smith PC. For my Gold Cups, I finally purchased National Match barrels and NM bushings from Colt that required fitting. AFTER that, I had the TIGHT frame, slide, barrel relationship required. Then I got groups at 25 yds of 1" and even less with handloads. This kind of treatment increases cost quite a bit though. The GC Trophy retails for $1699. Add an NM barrel and bushing? I am able to do the work myself, but most cannot. The price goes UP.

It is my understanding (from insiders) that the newest crop of Gold Cups are more accurate out of the box than mine were (and mine were not BAD). It's just that, this Smith is so good! I was able to verify the consistency of accuracy due to another guy in town who owns this same Smith. That has been Ransom tested as well with virtually the same results.

It seems like we hear a great deal about Springfield, Kimber, Sig, Colt, Dan... There are so many I lose track! The Smith should NOT be overlooked by any stretch. I know guys with VERY expensive Les Baer pistols struggling to achieve that "1.5" at 50 yds" guarantee", These guys are struggling to achieve 1" at 25 yds! I was literally able to pull this out of the box and just use it (with the exception of the trigger bow) for $1549.

While the retail price for this S&W PC 1911 is not cheap, in my opinion, it offers immense value. It delivers where it counts and then some.

The weird hammer was a Doug Koenig low mass hammer.

I have one of the JMB pistols and it is a very fine 1911.

Pictures of it are in this thread:
PC 1911

Good looking 1911 with the exception of the "idiot marks".

My Doug Koenig PC1911 .38 Super in the photo below has that skeletonized hammer. My ~14-year-old PC1911 .45 ACP with the slotted slide does not but both guns shoot well. I'm not a fan of the Briley bushing when it comes to cleaning; mine's a real chore to remove and reinstall so I'm glad the .38 Super doesn't have it.

As a side note, I participated in a thread a few weeks ago wherein the PC .38 Supers were discussed. I was kind of surprised by how many variations of it there are in terms of sights - Wilson (which mine has) rear sight, S&W rear sight, Patridge front sight (which mine also has) or fiber optic front sight and triggers - flat like mine or curved like a traditional 1911. It was speculated that at that time, the PC used what was on hand or whatever appealed to the gunsmith building the pistol.

Anyway, at the time of the PC .45's release, there was a video on S&W's website of a gunsmith and Doug Koenig handling the pistol. The gunsmith popped the bushing out and back in just like a standard bushing so I called to see why mine was so challenging. I was told to rub fine emery cloth on the inside. I didn't go very far at all and the damn thing was still a PITA.

I called again and was asked to return it for serving. The PC gunsmith working on it called me (a real surprise given today's national standards of customer service) to explain that in this case "tight's good" and I never should have been told about using emery cloth. He gave me two choices - allow him to open it up more (kind of a contradiction to his previous statement) or just shoot it so it breaks in correctly, the option he recommended and what I chose.

This will sound silly but I don't shoot the gun much because of how difficult it is to strip for cleaning but about 500 rounds later, the bushing still is hateful to remove and install. In fact, the gun has needed cleaning for several months but I've been procrastinating.

Ed

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