TLDR: I have a brand new defective model 41 and after 4 trips back and forth for repair nothing has been done to address the fact the gun cannot be adjust to hit to POA. I need to know who to contact at S&W to get my brand new gun in usable shape.
The whole story follows...
Hi all. I am at wits end with S&W's service center and I really need some advice or, even better, the contact information for someone at S&W who actually understands my pistol's problem and has the ability to fix it. Here is my journey through the worst customer service I have ever experienced:
I purchased a brand new Model 41 on May 1st of 2024. The gun fired one round, and then the trigger would not reset. By removing the barreled assembly I found that the trigger was not able to reset because the trigger bar was binding on the barreled assembly. It would repeatedly reset perfectly without the barrel in place and catching the hammer with my thumb. I could have fixed it myself with some carefully polishing, but I didn't want to do anything to the pistol that would void the warranty. I also do not feel that a $1700 pistol should require me to gunsmith on it right out of the box.
So, on May 3rd I contacted S&W customer service. I explained that there was a parts interference that should be a simple fix. The girl on the phone told me that the gun needs a 500 round break in. I asked her how I was supposed to fire 500 rounds from a gun that won't fire at all, and she seemed confused by that statement. I told her it needed to be attended to and that I wanted their gunsmiths to look over the gun. She provided a return shipping label.
So, on May 6th I sent the gun in for repair. On May 30th the gun came back to me. A note said it was test fired and evaluated and passed all tests. The gun, however, had not been fixed in any way. The trigger would still not reset. Some grease had been applied to the area I identified as the spot of binding of parts. In frustration I carefully polished the spot of interference and cold blued it. Very little polishing was required and the gun's trigger reliably reset every time after that. However....
As I verified function at the range I also did what any owner of high grade target pistol with adjustable sights would do, which was attempt to sight the gun in. Using CCI Standard Velocity, which seems to universally be recommended for this pistol, the gun shoots 4" high at 25 yards with the rear sight all the way at the lowest setting. Knowing that I should be able to adjust it to shoot high or low at whim to adjust for different target presentations and distances (and for ammo besides just CCI Standard Velocity if I find a round that is more accurate) this was an obvious issue. I also tried Eley Club, Eley Match (black box), Lapua Pistol King, and Lapua OSP. They all hit higher than the CCI. The Eley Club hit 7" high at 25 yards, again this is all with the rear sight at the very lowest position. Groups were around an inch to inch and a half with all types of ammo and I fired both offhand and from a rest. I have been shooting competitively (and often winning or contesting for top spots) in multiple disciplines for almost 20 years. I am far beyond an average shooter. Not bragging by any means. I just want to establish that I am not letting the muzzle fly up so much that my trigger press or hold is causing a heavy rimfire pistol to shoot so incredibly high that the sights cannot adjust to compensate. I should note that the extension of the barreled assembly that holds the rear sight is not bent upwards as I have seen on some model 41s, although this pistol shoots so high that even that wouldn't explain the lack of ability to have the gun hit to point of aim.
So, I call S&W customer service again. I explain that it is a model 41, of course, and the tech tells me I need to install a taller front sight. I ask if he understands that the model 41's front sight is integral, milled from the same block of steel that makes up the barreled assembly, and is not, in any simple fashion, replaceable. He was definitely not accustomed with the model 41, but after I explained the integral nature of the front sight, he agreed that it needed to come back for service and may require replacement of the barreled assembly. So, on June 6th I sent the gun back for a second time.
On September 11th the gun gets back to me. I can see that the barreled assembly is the same, the rear sight is still bottomed out, and before I sent the gun back I turned the rear sight 12 clicks to the left of center impact. It appears to still be far left where I left it when shipped. I see a note in the return that states the pistol was sighted in and passed evaluation. So I go to the range and the gun is off the target to the left at 25 yards. So I turn the sight to the right 12 clicks and the windage is now dead on, but the gun still shoots CCI Standard Velocity 4" high at 25 yards.
So, I contact S&W customer service for the third time. I get an email back that they understand my frustration and that I will get a new case number and a manager has been notified of my continued failing of repair despite the previous return and they will ensure a proper repair. They issue a 3rd return shipping label, so on September 25th I return it for a third time, thinking it will surely be handled appropriately now.
On October 17th my pistol makes it back to me. I open the box to find a note saying that the gun had been back 3 times for a failed trigger reset and they replaced the trigger bar. The sight was set just the way I set it prior to shipping the gun back that 3rd time. Each time I sent the gun back I included a typed letter that clearly and concisely described why I was sending the gun for service. This time, and the previous time, my letter in the case with the pistol stated the pistol shoots 4" high with CCI Standard Velocity at 25 yards despite the rear sight at the lowest position. Obviously no one read it at all this time, for sure.
So, I call S&W customer service and ask to speak to someone that is a shooter and a has performed gun repairs before, and the rep on the phone says he can help. I explain my 3 returns and how literally no repairs had been made that addressed the failings of the pistol. He pulls up my previous return information and says he can see why I am so frustrated, and assures me that he understands the nature of my problem and that he will personally oversee the handling of the repairs. He tells me that he is putting in the "service required" notes that it needs "slide adjustment". I have no idea how you "adjust" a solid piece of metal, and the slide doesn't carry the rear sight, but he assures me that this means it will be properly repaired.
So, on October 29th I send the defective pistol back to S&W for the fourth time. I'm thinking that surely they can't fail as spectacularly this fourth time as they have previously, and this will get it taken care of. Again I include a note with the problem being that the gun shoots 4" high with CCI Standard Velocity ammo at 25 yards despite the sight bottomed out.
On November 20th the gun is delivered to my house for the 4th time. I open the box to see that nothing has been done to the barreled assembly, but it appears that the rear sight is now slightly leaning rearward like someone hit the rear of it with a rubber mallet until the rear of the sight assembly was contacting the extension of the barreled assembly. It was definitely not this way when I shipped the pistol back any of the 4 times. It is obviously the same barreled assembly that has not been able to be sighted in, but I was willing to give S&W the benefit of a doubt (stupid of me at this point). I hoped maybe they redrilled the barrel channel true this time and installed a barrel insert (even though I have pistols fitted with inserts/sleeves and you can obviously see the insert), or maybe carefully tig welded material to the front sight and machined it to look like factory new and reblued it to perfectly match. I was doubtful though, as the paper in the box stated they adjusted the sights and it passed evaluation.
So I was able to get to the range today. The gun shoots 4" high at 25 yards with CCI Standard Velocity and much higher with any other ammunition. I had a fellow club member who competes in Bullseye and Hi-power also shoot the pistol. He owns several model 41 pistols. The gun shot 4" high for him at 25 yards, again, with the sight all the way at it's lowest position with the rear of the sight blade now contacting the top of the barrel extension that retains the rear sight. He agreed it obviously needs a new barreled assembly since even a lower rear sight blade would not do enough to get it to hit to point of aim at any competitive pistol distance, and looking online at various vintages of rear sights for the model 41 we could not find a rear sight that was lower than the one on this brand new pistol.
So, I have a $1700 pistol that is completely unusable, and I have wasted hours of my time, gas, and ammunition to keep getting zero service from S&W. I own 13 other S&W firearms dating from 1983 onward and have had no problems with any of them. My only previous experience with S&W customer service was about 7 years ago when I needed a taller front sight for my 629 DX Classic. I called seeking advice after installing a taller target-oriented rear sight assembly (which I explained to the tech was obviously something I expected) and he knew the part number for the correct height front sight to get me on target off the top of his head. I ordered the sight and it was a perfect solution. Something has obviously changed for the worse at S&W.
I really need advice from someone who understands the broken inner workings of S&W's customer service department. I am utterly flabbergasted at how awful the knowledge and performance of this company's people has become. Surely there is someone at S&W that actually understands the problem with this pistol and also understands that it clearly needs a new barreled assembly. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of pistol shooting can pick up this gun, fire a group, see that it impacts way too high compared to point of aim, then find that there is no more room in the adjustment range to bring the point of impact down to meet point of aim (unless you ONLY intend to shoot a pistol beyond 100 yards), and see that the front sight cannot be repaced and acknowledge that the pistol is defective.
So who can I contact at S&W that will resolve this for me? I've wanted a Model 41 since the 80's when, as a child, a friend's father let me shoot his. I was very excited when I bought this pistol. Now I fully regret the purchase of this pistol and honestly just want to get it fixed so I can sell it and never buy another S&W product again. I would sell it as is, but unlike S&W, I will not sell someone a defective gun.
Please help steer me to the right person to resolve this incredibly frustrating failure of customer service. I have run out of patience and ideas, and don't like the idea of being stuck with a $1700 paperweight.
The whole story follows...
Hi all. I am at wits end with S&W's service center and I really need some advice or, even better, the contact information for someone at S&W who actually understands my pistol's problem and has the ability to fix it. Here is my journey through the worst customer service I have ever experienced:
I purchased a brand new Model 41 on May 1st of 2024. The gun fired one round, and then the trigger would not reset. By removing the barreled assembly I found that the trigger was not able to reset because the trigger bar was binding on the barreled assembly. It would repeatedly reset perfectly without the barrel in place and catching the hammer with my thumb. I could have fixed it myself with some carefully polishing, but I didn't want to do anything to the pistol that would void the warranty. I also do not feel that a $1700 pistol should require me to gunsmith on it right out of the box.
So, on May 3rd I contacted S&W customer service. I explained that there was a parts interference that should be a simple fix. The girl on the phone told me that the gun needs a 500 round break in. I asked her how I was supposed to fire 500 rounds from a gun that won't fire at all, and she seemed confused by that statement. I told her it needed to be attended to and that I wanted their gunsmiths to look over the gun. She provided a return shipping label.
So, on May 6th I sent the gun in for repair. On May 30th the gun came back to me. A note said it was test fired and evaluated and passed all tests. The gun, however, had not been fixed in any way. The trigger would still not reset. Some grease had been applied to the area I identified as the spot of binding of parts. In frustration I carefully polished the spot of interference and cold blued it. Very little polishing was required and the gun's trigger reliably reset every time after that. However....
As I verified function at the range I also did what any owner of high grade target pistol with adjustable sights would do, which was attempt to sight the gun in. Using CCI Standard Velocity, which seems to universally be recommended for this pistol, the gun shoots 4" high at 25 yards with the rear sight all the way at the lowest setting. Knowing that I should be able to adjust it to shoot high or low at whim to adjust for different target presentations and distances (and for ammo besides just CCI Standard Velocity if I find a round that is more accurate) this was an obvious issue. I also tried Eley Club, Eley Match (black box), Lapua Pistol King, and Lapua OSP. They all hit higher than the CCI. The Eley Club hit 7" high at 25 yards, again this is all with the rear sight at the very lowest position. Groups were around an inch to inch and a half with all types of ammo and I fired both offhand and from a rest. I have been shooting competitively (and often winning or contesting for top spots) in multiple disciplines for almost 20 years. I am far beyond an average shooter. Not bragging by any means. I just want to establish that I am not letting the muzzle fly up so much that my trigger press or hold is causing a heavy rimfire pistol to shoot so incredibly high that the sights cannot adjust to compensate. I should note that the extension of the barreled assembly that holds the rear sight is not bent upwards as I have seen on some model 41s, although this pistol shoots so high that even that wouldn't explain the lack of ability to have the gun hit to point of aim.
So, I call S&W customer service again. I explain that it is a model 41, of course, and the tech tells me I need to install a taller front sight. I ask if he understands that the model 41's front sight is integral, milled from the same block of steel that makes up the barreled assembly, and is not, in any simple fashion, replaceable. He was definitely not accustomed with the model 41, but after I explained the integral nature of the front sight, he agreed that it needed to come back for service and may require replacement of the barreled assembly. So, on June 6th I sent the gun back for a second time.
On September 11th the gun gets back to me. I can see that the barreled assembly is the same, the rear sight is still bottomed out, and before I sent the gun back I turned the rear sight 12 clicks to the left of center impact. It appears to still be far left where I left it when shipped. I see a note in the return that states the pistol was sighted in and passed evaluation. So I go to the range and the gun is off the target to the left at 25 yards. So I turn the sight to the right 12 clicks and the windage is now dead on, but the gun still shoots CCI Standard Velocity 4" high at 25 yards.
So, I contact S&W customer service for the third time. I get an email back that they understand my frustration and that I will get a new case number and a manager has been notified of my continued failing of repair despite the previous return and they will ensure a proper repair. They issue a 3rd return shipping label, so on September 25th I return it for a third time, thinking it will surely be handled appropriately now.
On October 17th my pistol makes it back to me. I open the box to find a note saying that the gun had been back 3 times for a failed trigger reset and they replaced the trigger bar. The sight was set just the way I set it prior to shipping the gun back that 3rd time. Each time I sent the gun back I included a typed letter that clearly and concisely described why I was sending the gun for service. This time, and the previous time, my letter in the case with the pistol stated the pistol shoots 4" high with CCI Standard Velocity at 25 yards despite the rear sight at the lowest position. Obviously no one read it at all this time, for sure.
So, I call S&W customer service and ask to speak to someone that is a shooter and a has performed gun repairs before, and the rep on the phone says he can help. I explain my 3 returns and how literally no repairs had been made that addressed the failings of the pistol. He pulls up my previous return information and says he can see why I am so frustrated, and assures me that he understands the nature of my problem and that he will personally oversee the handling of the repairs. He tells me that he is putting in the "service required" notes that it needs "slide adjustment". I have no idea how you "adjust" a solid piece of metal, and the slide doesn't carry the rear sight, but he assures me that this means it will be properly repaired.
So, on October 29th I send the defective pistol back to S&W for the fourth time. I'm thinking that surely they can't fail as spectacularly this fourth time as they have previously, and this will get it taken care of. Again I include a note with the problem being that the gun shoots 4" high with CCI Standard Velocity ammo at 25 yards despite the sight bottomed out.
On November 20th the gun is delivered to my house for the 4th time. I open the box to see that nothing has been done to the barreled assembly, but it appears that the rear sight is now slightly leaning rearward like someone hit the rear of it with a rubber mallet until the rear of the sight assembly was contacting the extension of the barreled assembly. It was definitely not this way when I shipped the pistol back any of the 4 times. It is obviously the same barreled assembly that has not been able to be sighted in, but I was willing to give S&W the benefit of a doubt (stupid of me at this point). I hoped maybe they redrilled the barrel channel true this time and installed a barrel insert (even though I have pistols fitted with inserts/sleeves and you can obviously see the insert), or maybe carefully tig welded material to the front sight and machined it to look like factory new and reblued it to perfectly match. I was doubtful though, as the paper in the box stated they adjusted the sights and it passed evaluation.
So I was able to get to the range today. The gun shoots 4" high at 25 yards with CCI Standard Velocity and much higher with any other ammunition. I had a fellow club member who competes in Bullseye and Hi-power also shoot the pistol. He owns several model 41 pistols. The gun shot 4" high for him at 25 yards, again, with the sight all the way at it's lowest position with the rear of the sight blade now contacting the top of the barrel extension that retains the rear sight. He agreed it obviously needs a new barreled assembly since even a lower rear sight blade would not do enough to get it to hit to point of aim at any competitive pistol distance, and looking online at various vintages of rear sights for the model 41 we could not find a rear sight that was lower than the one on this brand new pistol.
So, I have a $1700 pistol that is completely unusable, and I have wasted hours of my time, gas, and ammunition to keep getting zero service from S&W. I own 13 other S&W firearms dating from 1983 onward and have had no problems with any of them. My only previous experience with S&W customer service was about 7 years ago when I needed a taller front sight for my 629 DX Classic. I called seeking advice after installing a taller target-oriented rear sight assembly (which I explained to the tech was obviously something I expected) and he knew the part number for the correct height front sight to get me on target off the top of his head. I ordered the sight and it was a perfect solution. Something has obviously changed for the worse at S&W.
I really need advice from someone who understands the broken inner workings of S&W's customer service department. I am utterly flabbergasted at how awful the knowledge and performance of this company's people has become. Surely there is someone at S&W that actually understands the problem with this pistol and also understands that it clearly needs a new barreled assembly. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of pistol shooting can pick up this gun, fire a group, see that it impacts way too high compared to point of aim, then find that there is no more room in the adjustment range to bring the point of impact down to meet point of aim (unless you ONLY intend to shoot a pistol beyond 100 yards), and see that the front sight cannot be repaced and acknowledge that the pistol is defective.
So who can I contact at S&W that will resolve this for me? I've wanted a Model 41 since the 80's when, as a child, a friend's father let me shoot his. I was very excited when I bought this pistol. Now I fully regret the purchase of this pistol and honestly just want to get it fixed so I can sell it and never buy another S&W product again. I would sell it as is, but unlike S&W, I will not sell someone a defective gun.
Please help steer me to the right person to resolve this incredibly frustrating failure of customer service. I have run out of patience and ideas, and don't like the idea of being stuck with a $1700 paperweight.
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