1006 slide on a 4506 frame?
- Thread starter FCOD
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
boingboing
Member
I would say no go since the 10mm is a longer cartridge than the 45. So I would think the frame of the 4506 wouldn't take the 1006 mags.
Very close but not quite the correct answer. Overall length of .45 ACP and 10 mm cartridges are the same. You'll recall the 10 mm was designed to fit into a standard 1911 frame. S&W designed the frames and magazines so you can't insert the wrong magazine into either frame.
S&W1006
Member
I can't say it will feed reliably but the 45 mags will hold 10mm rounds. I wish I had a 4506 and I would put my 1006 slide and barrel on to find out. It would be nice if it would work.
BruceM
Member
Well, semi-close but not really.
The original CSP-80 prototype shown to Jeff Cooper was chambered in .45 ACP, not 10mm. Uncle Jeff felt that the new gun needed to be chambered in .40 Special (now 10mm ACP) and the gun named Bren Ten. The thought at the time was to develop a new gun & cartridge to replace the .45 ACP 1911. So, you see, there was never one iota of thought given to chambering a 1911 in the 10mm cartridge.
Bruce
Dann Fassnacht
Member
How about the Colt Delta Elite?...That was a 10mm on a 1911 frame...I had one.
BruceM
Member
What about it?
The 10mm and .45 acp rounds are the same length which means that they generally will operate in the same basic platform. That doesn't mean that the 10mm round was designed for use in that platform. Frankly, while you can make the 10mm work in the 1911, it overpowers it IMO. The problem isn't containing the chamber pressure (37,000 psi vs 15,000 psi), it's the overall operating dynamics and the swinging link is the weakest point. Even JMB moved past that with the P35 HiPower as did Peter Stahl with the Omega and Smith & Wesson with the 10xx series and actually the 2nd and 3rd Generation autoloaders in general.
Bruce
The 10mm and .45 acp rounds are the same length which means that they generally will operate in the same basic platform. That doesn't mean that the 10mm round was designed for use in that platform. Frankly, while you can make the 10mm work in the 1911, it overpowers it IMO. The problem isn't containing the chamber pressure (37,000 psi vs 15,000 psi), it's the overall operating dynamics and the swinging link is the weakest point. Even JMB moved past that with the P35 HiPower as did Peter Stahl with the Omega and Smith & Wesson with the 10xx series and actually the 2nd and 3rd Generation autoloaders in general.
Bruce
Last edited:
maxtherabbit
Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2011
- Messages
- 36
- Reaction score
- 5
even if you're ok with putting 10mm in the 45 mag, the barrel-to-frame lug of the 10mm barrel will be too loose in the cutout in the frame. the no dash 4506 frames (all I think) used the older wider barrel lug while the 10mms (all I think) used the later narrower one
this is a separate issue from the barrel hood btw - they narrowed the barrel-to-frame lug before switching to the wide hood.
this is a separate issue from the barrel hood btw - they narrowed the barrel-to-frame lug before switching to the wide hood.
Before I got my 1076, I experimented with my 4506-1. I bought a complete 1006 slide assembly (with barrel) on GB. It fit my 4506-1 with no problems.
Maxtherabbit is correct, the width of the barrel block and frame opening are narrower than what's on an older 4506, I would doubt that the cam lugs on the barrel would fully engage the frame slots.
The 1006 mags have raised "lugs" on either side of the mag body to prevent them from accidentally or intentionally being put into a 4506, the mag well on a 1006 has slots milled into for it for those "lugs" to pass through.
The .45acp mag will hold and work with the 10mm, but not entirely 100% reliable, at least with mine.
That's as far as I got (Maybe changing out the 4506 mag springs and followers with those for a 1006 might have improved reliabilty)... until my 1076 came along.
Last year member bad_man_one did work with 10mm conversion barrels for a 4516, he had no problems using unmodified 4516 mags: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...-history-making-4516-1-2-4536-457-10-m-m.html
Maxtherabbit is correct, the width of the barrel block and frame opening are narrower than what's on an older 4506, I would doubt that the cam lugs on the barrel would fully engage the frame slots.
The 1006 mags have raised "lugs" on either side of the mag body to prevent them from accidentally or intentionally being put into a 4506, the mag well on a 1006 has slots milled into for it for those "lugs" to pass through.
The .45acp mag will hold and work with the 10mm, but not entirely 100% reliable, at least with mine.
That's as far as I got (Maybe changing out the 4506 mag springs and followers with those for a 1006 might have improved reliabilty)... until my 1076 came along.
Last year member bad_man_one did work with 10mm conversion barrels for a 4516, he had no problems using unmodified 4516 mags: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...-history-making-4516-1-2-4536-457-10-m-m.html
Last edited:
I wondered if I should have mentioned the Bren 10 but didn't bother. Some other readers may not have heard about the Bren 10 so I'm always happy to have these types of corrections made. I don't know the story in detail, but I remember Jeff Cooper used a .38-40 JSP in a cut down .30 Remington case.
BruceM
Member
Yes, the experimental ammo D&D built during development was based on shortened .30 Remington cases but I believe the 40 caliber bullets were swaged down .41 Mag bullets provided by Sierra. Mike Dixon had a contact there, I'm pretty sure. I'd have to double check my notes. The .38-40 bullets may have been used during the .40 G&A or Centimeter experiments. The funny thing about the original 10mm Norma ammo is that it ended up being more powerful than Dornaus & Dixon expected. Dixon "juiced" the spec's given to Norma because he didn't think they could be safely obtained in that case and when Norma fell short, they would still achieve what Jeff Cooper was requiring. When Norma actually did produce ammo meeting Dixon's spec's, it created problems for Dornaus & Dixon but....that's another story.
Bruce
Bruce
Last edited:
maxtherabbit
Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2011
- Messages
- 36
- Reaction score
- 5
Sectional density is needed when shooting at bears, hogs, through car doors, or engaging targets over a 100 yards away.
Otherwise, the +P.45 ACP is fine.
P.S. I own and handload the 10mm.
jdh
US Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2006
- Messages
- 1,703
- Reaction score
- 1,180
Finally got them both together on the work bench at the same time. The slides will go on the other frame but that is about it.
The feed ramp/lugs on the 45 barrel are wider than on the 10. The 45 barrel will not fit into the 10 frame. The 10 barrel will go into the 45 frame with daylight showing on both sides of the feed ramp. Loose and sloppy. It may function but would soon damage both the frame and the barrel.
The body of the 45 mag is wider than the 10 and will not fit in the mag well of the 10 frame. The 10 mag will go into the 45 frame up the raised bumps between the 8 and 9 witness holes. It is a very loose fit up to that point.
Using factory parts a one frame two caliber set up is not going to happen.
The feed ramp/lugs on the 45 barrel are wider than on the 10. The 45 barrel will not fit into the 10 frame. The 10 barrel will go into the 45 frame with daylight showing on both sides of the feed ramp. Loose and sloppy. It may function but would soon damage both the frame and the barrel.
The body of the 45 mag is wider than the 10 and will not fit in the mag well of the 10 frame. The 10 mag will go into the 45 frame up the raised bumps between the 8 and 9 witness holes. It is a very loose fit up to that point.
Using factory parts a one frame two caliber set up is not going to happen.
