110 Grain 357s

[CCantu357]

Recently came into a stockpile of 110gr Winchester JHPs for use in my Combat Magnum. Great shooting round. However some folks claim the 110 grain bullet is also the cause of forcing cone issues on K-frames. I have known for a very long time that full power 125 grains will wear out a K-frame, but is this true about the 110s? For what is worth a few older lawmen I asked said that mild shooting 110 grain 357s would never wear out a steel frame Smith of any size. Any opinions?

 

[kbm6893]

S&W recommends not shooting 110 grain or 125 grain magnums in their K frames. I had a 66 that I sold for that reason. If the barrel says .357, I should be able to shoot .357 of any flavor. Now, sparingly shooting them won't hurt the gun, but since S&W doesn't make them anymore, how would they fix it if it did cause damage. I traded it for a 686.

 

[Texas1941]

If you are talking about the WW White Box 110 gr HP, it is actually (like many of the 110 gr 357 factory loads) rather mild. Depends on the individual gun, bbl length etc., but you can expect about 1300 fps from a 4" bbl.

I know of reported issues with the full tilt boogie 125s, but I was not aware that there was any reccommendation against the 110s. However, it wouldn't be the first time I've missed something; I sure it won't be the last either.

FWIW, I use the 110 gr WW WB extensively in M-66s, which are suposed to be much more susceptible to forcing cone damage than the M-19s.

Charles

 

[aterry33]

FWIW, I use the 110 gr WW WB extensively in M-66s, which are suposed to be much more susceptible to forcing cone damage than the M-19s.

Charles

Does that have to do with the softness of the stainless steel?

 

[safearm]

IIRC, the prohibition on shooting the light bullet weights was due to bullet jump in the harder recoiling, i.e., airweight/alloy guns, that would lock up the cylinder when the bullets protrude from the front of the chamber.

 

[38-44HD45]

S&W recommends not shooting 110 grain or 125 grain magnums in their K frames. I had a 66 that I sold for that reason. If the barrel says .357, I should be able to shoot .357 of any flavor. Now, sparingly shooting them won't hurt the gun, but since S&W doesn't make them anymore, how would they fix it if it did cause damage. I traded it for a 686.

Kbm, has that warning by Smith been published anywhere? I've never heard of Smith recommending against the 110 gr. loads, and as others have noted, the factory 110s are loaded pretty light. Typically pretty flashy, though, in both WW and Federal loadings, in my experience.

 

[kbm6893]

Kbm, has that warning by Smith been published anywhere? I've never heard of Smith recommending against the 110 gr. loads, and as others have noted, the factory 110s are loaded pretty light. Typically pretty flashy, though, in both WW and Federal loadings, in my experience.

It was a response to an email I sne them. They told me to stick with 158 grain.

 

[flop-shank]

IIRC, the prohibition on shooting the light bullet weights was due to bullet jump in the harder recoiling, i.e., airweight/alloy guns, that would lock up the cylinder when the bullets protrude from the front of the chamber.

No. The reason to avoid hot 125 gr. loads is that with prolonged use some K frame revolvers have suffered split forcing cones.

While Winchester, Federal and Remington 110s are downloaded and mild, Corbon's 110 gr. load is as hot as they come. Corbon also makes a screaming hot 140 gr. JHP that might be the ticket in a K frame.

 

[Texas1941]

SS v carbon

Does that have to do with the softness of the stainless steel?

I am not an engineer and the characteristics of the differents types of steels are way byond my pay grade. I have read in various gun rags that the heating and heat retention qualities of stainless Ks make them more likely to suffer damage at the forcing cone than carbon steel.

At least two MEs, who do get paid to know such things, have told me the same thing. (One of them, by the way, has spent the last two weeks with a smile on his face and a song in his heart because his name/signature is in no way associated with a certain big piece of steel which is currently sitting on bottom of the Gulf and attracting all kind of unpleasant attention to its self.)

 

[SWAT Lt.]

Shoot it and be happy, it won't harm your gun.

 

[rev.]

A story I read several years ago was about a Highway Patrolman who stopped a car driven by a very obese man. Don't know what happened but the Patrolman put three 110gr 357's into the driver. The driver returned fire with a mini .22 revolver striking the patrolman in the neck and killing him.
Seems the three 110 grainers at their high velocity exploded in the drivers fat, never penetrating to his vitals. Sadly, he survived.
This may be a reason you may not want to use them for social purposes.
Anyone out there remember this situation?
rev.

 

[flop-shank]

Yes, rev, I do. That would be the incident in which N. Carolina highway patrolman Mark Coates lost his life. As I recall, Coates emptied his service revolver stoked with Winchester .357 145 gr. Silvertips into his obese assailant. The perp landed one decisive freak shot from a NAA .22 lr. mini that entered trooper Coates' body armor's arm hole and severed his aorta.

 

[stiab]

That would be the incident in which N. Carolina highway patrolman Mark Coates lost his life.

South Carolina. A tradegy regardless of location.

 

[SWAT Lt.]

stiab is correct, it was South Carolina. At the end of the training video I saw made of the incident, it lists the ammunition as .38 +P (Winchester, I believe). The gun was a .357. I can't recall if it was around the time many agencies used +P rounds until they could get their 686s modified (in response to the advisory not to fire magnums until the hammer nose and hammer nose bushing could be replaced) or not. I don't know why they were using .38+P but I remember the video providing that info.

FWIW, it doesn't matter what handgun round you carry, nothing is 100%. Nothing. We had an OIS back in the day with the .357 Magnum, Remington 125 SJHP, that resulted in a failure to stop, even after 5 hits, 3 of which were in the chest. Yes, that's the one that is the legendary round that is supposed to casue immediate incapacitation, no matter where you hit them, and immediately turn BGs to dust. Not a hater, just sayin'. I carried it back in the day as well.

 

[tpd223]

In the Trooper Coates incident the bad guy was hit 5 times out of 6 shots fired, with Winchester 125gr .357mag ammo, no vital organs or blood vessels were hit and the bad guy was able to shoot Trooper Coates, hitting him in the aorta with a .22lr from a NAA mini revolver.
Some of those bullets went almost all the way through the bad guy.
Gut shots don't work, especially on really large people.

Your 110gr Winchester will be just fine in a K frame. That's what I used to carry in my 640 when I carried it for a BUG, and I shot LOTS of those through that gun because Wal mart used to sell them for cheap and they had low recoil.
They also had the biggest muzzle flash of any quality JHP load I tried in that gun.