12" twist in a .308/7.62 target rifle???

[M29since14]

The question has come up, is a 12-inch twist a good thing in a .308 Winchester "tactical" type rifle? I wouldn't know, but would like to hear some informed opinions.

In this type of rifle I would think a 190-grain BTHP would be more the norm than a 168, so I am wondering if the 12-inch twist is sufficient. Anyone have any experience with this?

Remington seems to think it is OK. (see specs tab)

Centerfire Rifles - Tactical - Model 700 XCR Tactical - Long Range - Remington Rifles

 

[Marine24]

According to Berger's website, a 1:12 twist is recommended for bullet weights from 155gr to 185gr, but every rifle seems to have it own sweet spot.

I typically shot a 168gr or 175gr Berger VLD or Sierra BTHP bullets for my long range rifles (Savage 12 and Rem 700 SPS AAC-SD) before moving to 260 Rem. The Savage has a 1:12 twist and the Rem a 1:10 twist.

Both stabilize these bullets without any problems out to 800 yards. Beyond that, it is more about me than the rifles capability to get to 1000.

Typical bullets weight I've used in the Marine Corps and the long range matches has been the 168 and 175gr, but folks are starting to favor the heavier for caliber bullets with their improved BC.

 

[M29since14]

Thanks for that. It sounds like Berger is of the opinion that there are limits to what one can expect with a 12" twist and they are saying 180-grains is about it. I checked my various printed loading manuals and did not see this topic addressed by any of them, but I only own two or three that are reasonably current.

I thought it was interesting that Remington uses a 9" twist in the .223/5.56, and a 10" twist in the .300 magnum version, but stayed with a 12" twist for the .308. In that type of rifle I was expecting a 10" or 11" twist.

 

[Marine24]

Remington's SPS AAC-SD has the 1:10 inch twist but that is a 20" tube. Plus they have the 5R with a 24" barrel that has a 1:11.2 twist.

For the weights I typically shot, I didn't see a difference between the 10 or 12 twist barrel, but I never pushed the bullet weight beyond 175gr.

 

[beagleye]

I had one with that twist- Key holed 175s, ok with 168s, it did noticeably better with 155s.

 

[younggun22]

I have an FN SPR with the same twist. it loves 168gr Sierra match kings with Varget, shoots well enough with LC 175 and 178 match. I haven't tried the 155gr. yet

 

[LVSteve]

190gr starts to eat up too much case in .308. Might work better in 30-06.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

308 barrels with 1:12 to 1:14 and even 1:15 are intended to be used with 155 grain "Palma" bullets. The Sierra Bullet #3156 is the best 155 I have found. It has a BC like a 175 SMK, but allows an additional 200+/- fps. I am shooting most tactical plate shoots with a Savage 10 BAS and am getting 2900fps on a 24" barrel with 49.0 grains of Varget, 210M Federal primer all stuffed in full length sized Hornady Match brass. The primers are not flattened! I have shot these to 1035 yards, and get 3-4" groups (with scope). The Sierra ballistic program says the stay supersonic to around 1400 yards. Most Palma contests are 800, 900, and 1000 yards with metallic sights but F-class is for scoped rifles on bi-pods. Some courses run to 1200. yards

 

[YeshuaIsa53]

Remington's LTR and some of their bull barrel tacticals have the 1:10 straight from the factory in 20". 168 grain BTHP Gold Medal Match is great for target shooting the .308. If you want to go to 1000 yards, try Buffalo Bore's 175 grain sniper loads. They will get you there. With the extra weight and extra muzzle velocity, they are a charm to shoot. Never tried anything heavier except for deer hunting up close.

Can't say for the 1:12 except for close hunting.

 

[JimC]

I have a Rem. 700 VSSF in .308 from '94 with a 26" SS fluted bbl.
IIRC, it has the 1:12 twist.
Two of the best shooting bullets in this bbl. are the 168 gr. SMK and the 168 gr. Berger. I prefer the Sierra.
The 155 gr. Sierra Palma match bullet doesn't shoot well but truth be told, I didn't do much work with it.
I have a quantity of Federal/LC XM118LR that want to try in my rifle but haven't done so yet.

 

[Dennis The B]

I used to own a Remington 700 BDL "Varmint" which has a 1-12" twist. It didn't group particularly well with 168 grain bullets. It seemed to like 150's.

A couple of years ago I found a Remington 700 action mounted in a H-S Precision stock, set up for High Power. It's been measured at 1-10", and it likes 168-185gr bullets. My preference has been Sierra Match Kings. It doesn't like Varget, but groups well with H4895 Go figure.

 

[flundertaker]

My LTR likes 168gr SMK atop a load of 4064. I have tried 155 Scenars and 175 SMK and keep coming back to 168 SMK or 168 nosler custom comp.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

As I keep coming to this thread, I see how Remingtons are so varied in what they like. I had a PSP 308 is a HS Procession stock, I bought it used in 1986, very used! My oldest son has a PSP that belonged to Ohio Highway Patrol Rapid Response Team No. 2; they were disbanded and some equip was surplussed out. He bought it in 1999 and still has it. Mine hated any bullet lighter that 173 and shot Fed. GM Match 175s in pea sized groups at 200 yards. I had about 1000 rounds of 1968 Match 173 grain Most lots shot like this but 2 lots were about 4" at 100 yards. My sons Rifle shot M-118 Special Ball (Lake City 168 gr FMJ "Sniper Ammo"), in tiny bug sized groups at 300. But ANY 173 or 175 would tumble and "Pattern" like a shotgun at close range; 5 shot groups at 100 were about 4'. I can think of no way to determan what a Remington 700 will like in advance, so take a variety of target ammo in various Lot #'s and spend a day at the range. Remington 40x rifles come with a factory test group that tells exactly which bullet and powder charge (usually IMR 3031) the group was shot with. I have helped several friends buy 308 heavy barreled rifles that "wouldn't group" Then we would find factory/military ammo it liked, or if they reload, we would find a good load for it. By the way 4064 is the powder most highly recommended for 308's, and my PSP didn't like any round with it. I took a hint from Remington's custom shop and went with IMR 3031 whenever possible. And now days I use Varget whenever possible, but I see at least one person couldn't get to work. I also suggest you spend the extra $5 per 1000 primers and buy CCI BR-2 or Federal 210M primers, And take the primer out of the equation. Ivan

 

[M29since14]

Thanks for the info you guys. I sure wish Remington made that rifle with a 10- or 11-inch twist, but looking around at the various brands and models the 12-inch twist does seem to be more common. They could also make a few more of those 700XCRs in .300 Magnum (10-twist), which would doubtless be a better choice if you really wanted to shoot 190s, anyway.

 

[Jerry M]

1-12 inch twist is fine for a .308 Win. Shoot 150 to 175 OTM with great results.

Good luck

Jerry

 

[LVSteve]

I have helped several friends buy 308 heavy barreled rifles that "wouldn't group" Then we would find factory/military ammo it liked, or if they reload, we would find a good load for it.

Oh, do I know THAT story. Bought a bull barreled Howa 1500 and was trying to set up the scope with 147gr 7.62 NATO surplus. The thing shot patterns at 50 yards, worse than a Century FAL. Plugged in some 168gr rounds, all was good again.

FYI, that same surplus ammo shoots like a laser from a Chilean 1912 Mauser converted to 7.62 NATO. Go figure.

 

[Frank237]

Many years back I knew an Armorer who was rebarreling a few new Rem 700's with Hart barrels. I ended up with one of the take off barrels a 40-X barrel, 1 in 13" for the 155 gr Palma bullets.

Fast forward 40+ years. Last year I dug it out and screwed it into a blueprinted 700 LA. It shoots Berger 168's and 175's brilliantly. The Berger manual states it SHOULD stabilize them and it seems to.

I do agree though that at times a barrel can be a Law unto itself. I've seen quick twist barrels that liked lighter bullets despite the common knowledge stating it shouldn't.