125 gr 357 mag loads fired in a M19 ?

[tipoc]

Flame cutting of the top strap has never been much of a problem with the M19 unless some thing is wrong with the gun of course, or the ammo is above peak pressures. So as far as I know no one has tried plating the top strap to reduce it as there has been no need.

Many, many M19s have stood up to many thousands of rounds of .357 including hot 125 gr. loads over the decades. This was, after all, one of S&Ws more popular guns. Some have cracked in the area of the bottom of the forcing cone. This has often been traced to not cleaning the build up of lead out of this area and to general improper maintenance.

How many K frame .357s have cracked in this area? No one knows. S&W don't say. Of the hundreds of thousands produced and shot maybe only a few thousand. No one knows for sure. In the world of handgunners it don't take but a magazine article or two to start and keep a story alive particularly if the story is true. The story is that if you shoot a batch of lead ammo through a K frame .357 and then shoot a batch of hot jacketed .125 gr. loads through the gun on top of lead build up you are likely to develop a crack in the forcing cone.

The gun was first introduced in 1955. It was built with a steady diet of .38 Spl. in mind and some .357. This was at a time when police depts. that carried and shot .357 were in a minority. As more depts. and individuals shot more .357 and especially the hot .125 gr. jacketed loads, problems with cracked forcing cones began to appear more regularly. The guns also required tune ups more often than their .38 only kin.

The stainless M66 was introduced in 1970 and benefited from the experience of the M19 and it's kin. But shooting loose with hot .125 gr. loads continued. S&Ws ultimate solution to the challenge was the L frame guns.

Brian Pearce did an article in Peterson's reloading mag awhile back on this subject. His M19 had gone many thousands of rounds with .357 ammo. Maintenance was the key. Keep the lead out. Tune them when needed. These gems can last a lifetime and more.

tipoc

 

[GeoMonkey]

tipoc,
Very good info.

Sometimes we get caught up in being overly protective of our aging beauties.

The M19-6 I bought is as-new now, and as my wife can attest, I'm "obsessive" in keeping all my guns clean

 

[john traveler]

The lack of documented forcing cone cracking in M66 versus the many observed in carbon steel M19 guns may indeed be related to the metallurgy.

The carbon steel guns use either ASME 4130 or 4140 alloy, and they happen to be the most common carbon steels used in barrels. Both are subject to flame hardening and the resulting brinelling described earlier. The stainless alloys used in S&W revolvers is not subject to the flame hardening.

 

[Kevin Gibson]

First, let me begin by saying the Combat Magnum is oneof my absolute favorite handguns. My very fist handgun was a 6" model 19-5 with 6" barrel. After just under 1k rounds, I split the forcing cone shooting 145 grain Winchester Silvertip. This was after shooting my own 158 grain .38 spl SWC loads.

Since that first revolver, which was spendid othewise, I have worked on a bunch of K frame S&W's. Yes, they are not without their problems, but I still think the K frame is the best revolver S&W has ever turned out (especially the Combat Masterpiece series .38, .32 & .22).

I have seen forcing cone splitting on just about all models of Combat Magnums (19 & 66) in 2.5, 4 and 6" barrel lengths. I have also, on rare occasion, seen frame cracking under the barrel shank where the crane rests.

For the most part, this is due to either excessive shooting of magnum rounds in a combat magnum, or just plain a ton of rounds in any K frame. (.22's excepted)

From the get go, the K frame was too small for the .357. SAAMI reduced the cartridge pressure specs to accomodate the K frame, but it really didn't help much; the K frame was still too small for the .357.

You have to realize, the .357 is a very powerful and high pressure cartridge. And the K frame dates back to the very end of the 19th century, and was designed for very low pressure cartridges.

Modern manufacturing and metallurgy was just plain insufficient to compensate for the fundamental fact that the K frame is not a magnum platform.

I still think the Combat Magnum is a spendid revolver and is capable of handling a limited dose of .357's (which is what it was designed for; even Bill Jordan would tell you that).

Keep the gun clean. Invest in a lewis lead remover if you shoot cast bullets, because the lewis tool has a device specifically made for cleaning lead from the forcing cone.

And here's a home brew solution for breaking up lead, and nothing works better. Use equal parts of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. This will be the absolute best lead solvent you've ever used. You have to make it as you go because the two will not stay mixed.

Shoot the living daylights out of your Combat Magnum with any .38 Special. Use .38 Special +P's for personal defense because it doesn't have any of the offending features of the .357 for personal defense (huge flash, deafening noise), and delivers 90% of the actual terminal performance.

In the field against "other" critters such as black bear or large kitty's...Load it with a good 158 grain JHP in a magnum loading.

Do this and you will enjoy what is perhaps the best revolver ever produced.

Ignore this advice and you're on your own.

 

[Kevin Gibson]

Oh, I might add that never once did I "fix" a broken forcing cone. Back when I was a gunsmith by vocation, S&W wouldn't sell their "magnum" barrels; they had to be replaced by the factory only.

I might also add that I can count on one hand the number of 66's I've seen with a cracked forcing cone...seemed to me at least that it was much more prevalent in the 19.

I'll admit, I never did make the -5 connection; guess I just didn't pay that close of attention. I can tell you that I have seen pre -5 barrels split though. (everyone always remembers pinned and recessed)