14-2 with 5" barrel

[stu1ritter]

I recently found this on Gunbroker and for some reason I was the only bidder. A 14-2 that dates 1961 with a 5" barrel and ramp front sight. The ONLY mention I can find in Supica is that 5" barrels bring a premium and nothing else. No production codes, nadda. Anyone have any ideas? Please pardon the poor photo's, I'll get it outside later and redo. It is one of the nicest shooting .38's I own.
Thanks,
Stu

 

[410bore]

I almost bid on it, but passed as the photos made it look in poorer condition than it appears to be here.

good buy

 

[Art Doc]

I believe some 5" 14s and 15s were made on special order for some police agencies. Very cool.

 

[stu1ritter]

It is actually in much better condition than these poor photo's and I was shocked when I opened the package at how good it looked. I thought for the price I could refinish it if I decided to just keep it as a shooter, but no need. It's just fine. I can't believe that in 10 days I was the only bid.

 

[stu1ritter]

There are no departmental markings on the gun at all.

 

[murphydog]

If there is no evidence that the barrel has been shortened, it appears a factory letter is in order. There were 5" Illinois State Police and Missouri State Highway Patrol guns (member linde is knowledgeable about these) but these were from a slightly earlier time than the 14-2. Nice find!

 

[Iggy]

Dayton model?

 

[410bore]

Dayton model?

Dayton's were 4 inch guns.

I read here on the forum about some 5" 14-2's when I was looking at this gun on Gunbroker.

Here we go;

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/151394-model-14-2-k-38-5-special-order.html

 

[stu1ritter]

410bore, thanks for that link. I just looked at the rib under the front sight and indeed there are the two pins polished flush to the rib, I didn't see them before. Humm, looks like a letter is indeed required here. By the way, what search terms did you use to find that 2010 post? I tried quite a few different combinations and never turned it up.
thanks,

 

[410bore]

410bore, thanks for that link. I just looked at the rib under the front sight and indeed there are the two pins polished flush to the rib, I didn't see them before. Humm, looks like a letter is indeed required here. By the way, what search terms did you use to find that 2010 post? I tried quite a few different combinations and never turned it up.
thanks,

"14-2 5" Barrel"

 

[stu1ritter]

Your browser must be better than my browser. I had no returns using exactly that expression :~(

 

[410bore]

Your browser must be better than my browser. I had no returns using exactly that expression :~(

were you using the forum search or the google custom search? I always use the google search and have great results.

 

[linde]

I recently found this on Gunbroker . . . A 14-2 that dates 1961 with a 5" barrel and ramp front sight.

An outstanding example . . . congratulations!

Having studied the 5" Heavy K-38s made for the Illinois State Police, I have run across several other pre-model marked examples including ISP "overruns" as well as a few special runs for major dealers.

Other than the one of twenty-four example provided by Walter Rego (in the link provided by 410Bore), yours is the only other Model 14-2 with a 5" I have seen. I would guess it will letter as number two of those twenty-four.

You done good! Thanks for sharing.

Russ

 

[stu1ritter]

Thanks Russ, the letter request goes in today's mail. From your studies, have you determined that these 5"er's were all overruns and or special runs for major dealers, or in other words, were any ever ordered singularly (if that was even possible)?

 

[stu1ritter]

I just looked at the serial number on the Walter Rego 14-2 and it is K5519xx. The serial number on mine is K494554.

 

[Watchdog]

I must not live right. Or maybe I don't visit enough pawn shops. Or maybe I just live in the wrong state. Or something. Nothing like this ever happens with me. Congratulations on a very nice find.

 

[linde]

Thanks Russ, the letter request goes in today's mail. From your studies, have you determined that these 5"er's were all overruns and or special runs for major dealers, or in other words, were any ever ordered singularly (if that was even possible)?

Stu,

I would guess relatively few batches were "one-only" special orders, but I have seen examples where the factory produced a batch of 25 or more special barrel lengths and shipped a few here and there to their larger "preferred" dealers. I suspect the factory was doing a little market test when that happened.

Unfortunately, factory letters do not always tell us how many units were in a given shipment so there may be more knowledge yet to be learned.

Russ

 

[JP@AK]

If there is no evidence that the barrel has been shortened, it appears a factory letter is in order. There were 5" Illinois State Police and Missouri State Highway Patrol guns (member linde is knowledgeable about these) but these were from a slightly earlier time than the 24-2. Nice find!

Yes. The ISP guns were from 1957, so would not have been Model 14-2. The MSHP revolvers were Combat Masterpiece revolvers and shipped in 1952. So both of those guns are out as possibilities here.
Photo of the MSHP Combat Masterpiece in my collection:

 

[Walter Rego]

A letter on the gun that stu1ritter posted might be worthwhile. The current wait time from Mr. Jinks is about 6 months though. Please post to the list when you get the information back. I am kind of surprised that another from the batch of 24 that shipped to American Wholesale Hardware Co. in Long Beach, CA in January 1964 along with mine has not surfaced yet. I wrote to the Historian with the Long Beach PD a while back and asked if the department ever issued 5" K-38's but did not receive a response. They could have been for another agency in the region or maybe a security company ? It's too bad S&W didn't make the 5" a standard available length in both the Model 14 and Model 17, they have a very nice balance.

 

[revolver club prez]

Hello alll.
With regard, the 5inch bbl. Mod 14 . About 20 years ago I bought one such and was told that it was a custom order . From then on I have not seen another revolver like it .Also no reference book that I have seen , makes mention of these .

 

[stu1ritter]

The factory letter has been sent for, just another 5 months 20 days to wait.

 

[linde]

. . . With regard to the 5inch bbl. Mod 14 . About 20 years ago I bought one such and was told that it was a custom order . From then on I have not seen another revolver like it .Also no reference book that I have seen , makes mention of these .

Your forum name tells us you're a revolver fan . . . welcome to the Forum . . . you're in good company here.

Yes, except for the few collectors who owned them, the special-ordered 5" barrel length K-38s were not studied and documented until fairly recently. Thanks to the efforts of Roy Jinks (S&W Historian), the S&W Collectors Association, the S&W Historical Foundation and this Forum, we are learning more that will hopefully benefit future collectors.

If you would, please add to our collective knowledge with any more information you may have on your 20-year old 5" K-38. Is it Model 14 marked? If you'll share the serial number we may be able to identify it as being part of a known batch.

Thanks for sharing,

Russ

 

[stu1ritter]

Well, the letter has arrived. This is NOT what I was expecting. Anyone have any additional thoughts?
thanks,

 

[gr8smiles]

You have a hot gun
Well, that said. I was born in May 1963 so if you decide you don't want it.
Hollar


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[linde]

Well, the letter has arrived. This is NOT what I was expecting. Anyone have any additional thoughts?
thanks,

That's interesting . . . we can only speculate what happened.

In the past we would see factory letters report . . . " this gun is open on the books". Perhaps that terminology is no longer acceptable.

Basically serial numbers are pre-listed in the shipping log and as guns are logged out the shipping information is added. Whenever the shipping information columns are still blank one of three (or more) things could have happened.

1 - the gun is still inside the factory and never left. I suppose in your instance that one doesn't compute.

2 - the shipping clerk forgot to enter the information . . . we found ten such examples among the 365 5" Combat Masterpieces that shipped to the Missouri Highway Patrol. The Patrol records confirmed that it was received with others in a shipment but the factory had no record of where it went.

3 - the gun was pulled from the production line by a company official and either gifted or sent home with a factory rep or whoever and the account information it was charged to was never entered in the shipping log.

Even though we don't know where it shipped, it would have been good to learn that it was in fact a special ordered 5" barrel.

Russ

edit to add: Before posting my comments above I read only the last paragraph of Roy's letter . . . which normally contains all the information specific to the gun. I now see he had already provided the full "open on the books" explanation in his first two paragraphs.

 

[stu1ritter]

That had sort of been my hope Russ, that it was a special order. Oh well, lost in the ravages of time. Sure is fun to shoot though.

 

[YeshuaIsa53]

Glad I didn't bid on it, but even more glad I didn't spend fifty bucks for that. What's fifty bucks?

 

[Peak53]

I don't care what our distinguished collectors say, I would love to own that gun. The cool factor, along with Mr. Jinks' multiple apologies, are priceless - well almost

 

[linde]

I don't care what our distinguished collectors say, I would love to own that gun. The cool factor, along with Mr. Jinks' multiple apologies, are priceless - well almost

Open on the books letter aside, there are many of us who would love to own that gun. The balance and ease of handling a 5" K-38 with heavy barrel and ramp front sight makes it the ideal target-grade holster gun . . . it don't get no better!

Russ

 

[wrhk33]

To me the gun is more interesting because of what it said in the letter.