Pocketfisherman
Member
It's not just how fast you push the bullet, it is also how hard you hit it with pressure, the steepness of the pressure curve slope, and the rate of acceleration that can cause problems.
140gr Hornady FTX Load Data
- Thread starter Ben_hutcherson
- Start date
That sounds good but as I mentioned in post 15 , please provide documentation that shows the XTP separates at rifle velocities??. Years ago I called Hornady and discussed the use in 30-30 tube fed lever guns. They stated they are fine, made for that. The bullet has been successfully used for many many years in rifles.
OP
Ben_hutcherson
Member
Well, I did manage to get my hands on some Win 296.
Even though load data is scarce, I used the data in the print Hodgon manual along with Quickload and came up with what I think is a safe starting load along with a little bit of a work-up.
The big issue I'm having now is seating the bullets without distorting the tip. This continues to get complicated
I know that Lee will make up a custom seating plug for me for $8, although the wait time is stated as 4-6 weeks. I'm thinking about just ordering another "standard" seating plug and seeing if I can modify it to suit my purposes for this bullet.
Even though load data is scarce, I used the data in the print Hodgon manual along with Quickload and came up with what I think is a safe starting load along with a little bit of a work-up.
The big issue I'm having now is seating the bullets without distorting the tip. This continues to get complicated
I know that Lee will make up a custom seating plug for me for $8, although the wait time is stated as 4-6 weeks. I'm thinking about just ordering another "standard" seating plug and seeing if I can modify it to suit my purposes for this bullet.
Water-Man
US Veteran
You've been advised more than once about the problem. If you choose to ignore it then so be it.
As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...............!
buck460XVR
Member
Hornady only recommends that trim length for the FTX bullet. For all other bullets, in my manual, it actually recommends 1.280".
Hornady also makes a 158gr XTP-FP that performs terminally much better than the XTP-HP at carbine velocities. As for the extra effort of trimming and segregating cases and cost of the FTX bullet, IMHO, the pointy red tip ain't worth it @ .357 velocities, even outta a carbine. The 158gr XTP-FP or any 158gr JSP will perform just as well. The FTX does not turn a .357 carbine into a 30-30 and a 158gr bullet will give a tad more penetration, which is what's generally lacking when hunting deer with a .357.
One needs to be aware when picking up .357 range brass, especially if it says Hornady on it, that it may in fact have been Factory Hornady FTX ammo or someone else using trimmed cases shooting FTX bullets. This is a pain in the butt and why I agree with scooter123 that designing a bullet for such a popular caliber that takes a size specific case is foolishness.
OP
Ben_hutcherson
Member
I called Hodgon yesterday, and the rep I spoke to gave me a charge of 12.5-14gr of W296 with this bullet in 357 magnum.
I also specifically asked about trim length, and was told that the above numbers specified a trim length of 1.240", or the "short" length that Hornady also specifies.
I also specifically asked about trim length, and was told that the above numbers specified a trim length of 1.240", or the "short" length that Hornady also specifies.
What an amazing thread!
Seems to me that the uncertainties involved outweigh any possible advantages of these FTX bullets.
I also can't imagine shortening .357 cases below SAAMI specs. This is voodoo reloading. You've really created a wildcat round, once it's out of the SAAMI specs for .357 mag. It's something else.
Seems to me that the uncertainties involved outweigh any possible advantages of these FTX bullets.
I also can't imagine shortening .357 cases below SAAMI specs. This is voodoo reloading. You've really created a wildcat round, once it's out of the SAAMI specs for .357 mag. It's something else.
setxn
Member
I have seen the difference the FTX bullet makes in a 45.70 and would do whatever it requires to use them. I would imagine the difference is the same in all the calibers offered.
STORMINORMAN
Member
In a revolver the OAL isn't really going to be a crucial issue, right?
With a handgun muzzel velocity range of 800-2200 fps(!!!!) loading in a .357 mag case to similar velocities as other 140gr. jacketed bullets (i.e. the XTP) should not pose a problem, eh?
I would imagine 1200 fps with a 140gr. FTX would do the required deed @ 50ft on a deer or a two-legged target?
With a handgun muzzel velocity range of 800-2200 fps(!!!!) loading in a .357 mag case to similar velocities as other 140gr. jacketed bullets (i.e. the XTP) should not pose a problem, eh?
I would imagine 1200 fps with a 140gr. FTX would do the required deed @ 50ft on a deer or a two-legged target?
DWalt
Member
In a revolver, COAL is definitely an issue. You cannot have the bullet nose sticking out beyond the front face of the cylinder. The whole idea of the LeveRevolution bullets is that the bullet ogive radius is greater, making the shape more aerodynamic. Also, the distance between the bullet crimping cannelure and the bullet tip is greater than for other bullets, therefore, the case must be shortened a little to get the proper COAL, assuming the case mouth is to be crimped into the bullet cannelure. I have no idea what the maximum COAL limit your rifle will tolerate, but if a cartridge with the case mouth crimped into the cannelure can be chambered completely from the magazine without resistance, without trimming the .357 case shorter, there should be no problems. If it won't, I'd simply load the bullets into .38 Special cases. You can duplicate about any .357 load in a .38 Special case, and the best powders to use would be 2400, 296, or H110.
STORMINORMAN
Member
Please don't misinterpret my 1st sentence: of course OAL is a consideration in any firearm, but as long as the completed round is not TOO LONG for the cylinder of a revolver there certainly be no problem vis-a-vis it "chambering".
In a previous thread about loading the 140gr. FTX in a 686-1 duckloads loaded in a standard case to an COL of 1.620 with no problems.
I would opine that a loading a bit longer than that of any factory standard .357 magnum round is not likely to cause any problems case volume-wise, depending on the powder used. For example the spread from starting (6.5) to maximum (7.7) loads for an 140gr. XTP using W231 (and a COL of 1.590) is 1.2gr., and this represents approximately 16%.
Cheers!
p.s. I don't know just how long the cylinder actually is on my Model 15 but I bet it is probably (?) longer than a factory .357 round (which won't fit, of course, since the case is too long)... Out to the shop with the micrometer!
In a previous thread about loading the 140gr. FTX in a 686-1 duckloads loaded in a standard case to an COL of 1.620 with no problems.
I would opine that a loading a bit longer than that of any factory standard .357 magnum round is not likely to cause any problems case volume-wise, depending on the powder used. For example the spread from starting (6.5) to maximum (7.7) loads for an 140gr. XTP using W231 (and a COL of 1.590) is 1.2gr., and this represents approximately 16%.
Cheers!
p.s. I don't know just how long the cylinder actually is on my Model 15 but I bet it is probably (?) longer than a factory .357 round (which won't fit, of course, since the case is too long)... Out to the shop with the micrometer!
Davinman
Member
i was thinking about loading a few of these up w/some rl-7 in a 358win rifle for varmint loads. any thoughts on that?
DWalt
Member
My feeling is that the LeverRevolution buys you very little gain unless you are going for long range. At typical hunting ranges for most hunters, you will do as well with ordinary factory loads.
scooter123
Member
Since my posts back in 2014 I've picked up two rifles in 357 Magnum and a Dan Wesson revolver in 357 Magnum. With my model 620 that gives me a sampling of a variety of 357 Magnums and I can report that an overall length of 1.620 inch with the Hornady FTX bullet functions perfectly in all of the. So, I do NOT and will NOT every trim my 357 Magnum cases for the 140 grain Hornady FTX.
I've also experimented with the FTX bullets and would urge anyone looking into this bullet to take a look at the Youtube videos on performance testing with this bullet. Hint, it's NOT good.
Having loaded with this bullet I now consider them to only be suitable for plinking. Because even in full length cases the available powder volume is limited. Best I've been able to achieve with a full case (14.5 gr.) of H110 is 1500 fps from the 20 inch barrel on my Winchester 92. Compare that to the 1775 fps from a 17.5 gr. charge of H110 with the 140 grain XTP and you'll understand why I am NOT impressed with the Hornady FTX. Accuracy with the FTX from my Winchester is distinctly Ho-Hum at an average of 1 3/4 inches at 50 yards. In comparison the 140 grain bullet will shoot to 7/8 inch at the same distance.
So, if you want to shoot with a bullet that limits powder capacity and thus velocity, either fails to expand or fragments on impact, with less than optimum accuracy you are free to give them a try. As for myself, I find the older XTP line of bullets to be much more accurate and much more useful and trustworthy in a Hunting application.
BTW, my favorite XTP in 357 Magnum is the 158 grain version with the 140 running a close second. Out of either the Winchester or Rossi M92 the accuracy with a load tuned to the rifle is superb. I also have a reflex sight mounted on my 620 and off a sandbag rest for my hands both bullets will shoot groups under 1.5 inches at 25 yards. Fact is they'll probably shoot under 1/2 inch but I'd have to mount a scope on the 620 and spend many weeks practicing to determine that.
I've also experimented with the FTX bullets and would urge anyone looking into this bullet to take a look at the Youtube videos on performance testing with this bullet. Hint, it's NOT good.
Having loaded with this bullet I now consider them to only be suitable for plinking. Because even in full length cases the available powder volume is limited. Best I've been able to achieve with a full case (14.5 gr.) of H110 is 1500 fps from the 20 inch barrel on my Winchester 92. Compare that to the 1775 fps from a 17.5 gr. charge of H110 with the 140 grain XTP and you'll understand why I am NOT impressed with the Hornady FTX. Accuracy with the FTX from my Winchester is distinctly Ho-Hum at an average of 1 3/4 inches at 50 yards. In comparison the 140 grain bullet will shoot to 7/8 inch at the same distance.
So, if you want to shoot with a bullet that limits powder capacity and thus velocity, either fails to expand or fragments on impact, with less than optimum accuracy you are free to give them a try. As for myself, I find the older XTP line of bullets to be much more accurate and much more useful and trustworthy in a Hunting application.
BTW, my favorite XTP in 357 Magnum is the 158 grain version with the 140 running a close second. Out of either the Winchester or Rossi M92 the accuracy with a load tuned to the rifle is superb. I also have a reflex sight mounted on my 620 and off a sandbag rest for my hands both bullets will shoot groups under 1.5 inches at 25 yards. Fact is they'll probably shoot under 1/2 inch but I'd have to mount a scope on the 620 and spend many weeks practicing to determine that.
Before you go cutting and hacking all those good 357 cases......
you might want to shoot one box of Buffalo Bore 180gr lead
that goes 1851 fps out of a 18.5" barrel and see what it does at 100 yards.
you might want to shoot one box of Buffalo Bore 180gr lead
that goes 1851 fps out of a 18.5" barrel and see what it does at 100 yards.
I think Lyman....
I have Lymans 49th and there is some info on:
Unique
True Blue
H110
IMR 4227
I use 2400 from about 12 grains to 16.5 gr max. When I get over 15 grains in my 686 they get pretty smackum-jackum.
I have Lymans 49th and there is some info on:
Unique
True Blue
H110
IMR 4227
I use 2400 from about 12 grains to 16.5 gr max. When I get over 15 grains in my 686 they get pretty smackum-jackum.
Clovishound
Member
Heck, American Eagle brand 158 grain soft points chronographed at 1800 fps from my 20" rifle barrel. Of course, it is a Henry, so that probably gained me another 40 or 50 fps.
scooter123
Member
Heck, American Eagle brand 158 grain soft points chronographed at 1800 fps from my 20" rifle barrel. Of course, it is a Henry, so that probably gained me another 40 or 50 fps.
This doesn't surprise me at all. Out of my 6 inch Dan Wesson this load will clock 1230-1250 fps. I'll admit to not testing this particular load out of my 20 inch Winchester but based on past experience I would expect velocities in the 1700-1800 fps range. Heck, my *****cat load of just 14.5 grains of H110 with a 158 grain Hornady XTP comes in at 1615 fps and the accuracy is "just marvelous" at a tick under 1 MOA with a rear tang peep sight and a good spotter calling my shots.
Clovishound
Member
IIRC, the box lists 1240 fps for the MV in a revolver length barrel.
I was looking to develop a hunting load using one of the slower magnum powders and the Hornady 158 grain XTP bullet. When I discovered how these American Eagle SPs performed, I stashed the unfired rest of the box in my hunting backpack and called it good.
FWIW, I know a lot of people who refuse to shoot Buffalo Bore ammo in their weapons. Those things are smoking hot.
I was looking to develop a hunting load using one of the slower magnum powders and the Hornady 158 grain XTP bullet. When I discovered how these American Eagle SPs performed, I stashed the unfired rest of the box in my hunting backpack and called it good.
FWIW, I know a lot of people who refuse to shoot Buffalo Bore ammo in their weapons. Those things are smoking hot.
