15-22 For Self Defense

[CrazyFingers]

It's a little big, and a lot expensive.
For the price of a single Surefire 60 round mag, I can get 6 standard P-Mags, or 8 standard GI mags with Magpul followers.
I'm not ragging on anyone who wants/owns a Surefire mag, but it's not for me.
Besides, if you're going to go a little nuts, why not go all the way?

 

[thacheese]

Just want to state it's not ideal to use a firearm in all defense situations, but unless (and even if) you are using beanbags, or rubber bullets in your weapon you are employing potentially lethal force regardless of your intent. If you are legally justified in shooting the person, live or die, it was justified end of story.

Also bear in mind people have been sued for permanently maiming intruders, and although it was justified legally, civilly you can be paying for the persons care and "inability to work" for the rest of their life.

and yes, if you use it for defense it's a weapon, if you use it for hunting it's a weapon (weapons aren't only classified as things that hurt humans)
using it to obliterate a target... you get the point.

your argument would work well with something like a blade which can be used as a tool, but seriously any rifle or handgun really only has one purpose and that is to obliterate/damage/cause harm to whatever you shoot at. unless it's decorative non functional piece.
legally speaking anything other than a bare fist can be considered a weapon.

 

[mag318]

Just want to state it's not ideal to use a firearm in all defense situations, but unless (and even if) you are using beanbags, or rubber bullets in your weapon you are employing potentially lethal force regardless of your intent. If you are legally justified in shooting the person, live or die, it was justified end of story.

Also bear in mind people have been sued for permanently maiming intruders, and although it was justified legally, civilly you can be paying for the persons care and "inability to work" for the rest of their life.

and yes, if you use it for defense it's a weapon, if you use it for hunting it's a weapon (weapons aren't only classified as things that hurt humans)
using it to obliterate a target... you get the point.

your argument would work well with something like a blade which can be used as a tool, but seriously any rifle or handgun really only has one purpose and that is to obliterate/damage/cause harm to whatever you shoot at. unless it's decorative non functional piece.
legally speaking anything other than a bare fist can be considered a weapon.

Well said and you bring up a great point.

 

[hkyplr]

I couldn't agree more.

That's exactly why my home defense shotgun looks pretty plain (compared to many others).

Shooting someone several times with a "tricked out" .22lr that you post pictures of on the internet isn't going to help your case.

Another real world example off the .22lr not being able to do the job the way a SD/HD firearm should...

My mother and I work on my grandfather's cattle ranch in Montana (seasonal for me). Two years ago (I was at home in Washington) my mom had to put a four month old sick/crippled calf down. She grabbed the old model 62A off the fireplace and headed out to the corral. The thing couldn't move and she was within ten yards of him. She put three rounds right between the eyes. It didn't work. The forth shot finally did him in. This was an ideal situation, which wouldn't be the case in a home invasion where the other end is able to shoot back. I know a cow isn't a human, but it still taught her a lot about the right tool for the job. I was sent out to do the same three days ago (with my .44mag rifle), but he was allready gone. I hate that part of being a rancher.

It is funny that you should bring that up because I have had two discussions within the past couple weeks about the effectiveness of .22s. The first was with a senior firearms instructor/retired LEO and the second was an owner of the gun club I belong to. They both said the same thing, people underestimate the damage that can be done by a .22. In fact the Gun Club Owner said that they used .22s on the ranch when butchering cattle. I think the mistake your Mom made was shooting the calf between the eyes, gotta be the thickest part of the skull. In fact if you watch any of the gator show that seem to be so popular in TV right now, they use .22s to put the crocks down too. I know it is TV, but....

 

[Kayback]

No one is saying the .22 isn't dangerous, they are saying it might not be the best tool for self defense.

You can use a 1300 Corsa as a race car, but it will be out performed by NASCAR and Formula 1 cars.

 

[hkyplr]

No one is saying the .22 isn't dangerous, they are saying it might not be the best tool for self defense.

I agree, but a lot of people think of them as ineffective. Make no mistake, my .22s are put away and my .45 is my choice for SD.

 

[tim from illinois]

I have 2 guns my mp 22 rifle and my walther p22 pistol. I hav shot large caliber pistols and in the time it takes me set to take a second shot I can have 3 off with my Walther. For me its what Iam comfortable with. Im thinking about a smith and wesson 9 mm. I think that may be something I could handle. I like the op believe there is going to be a total meltdown of the economy. I hope Im wronng but I would rather be ready than sorry.

 

[rraisley]

Im thinking about a smith and wesson 9 mm.

Just FYI, I have a S&W M&P 9C and LOVE it. Not quite small enough for concealed carry, though, (I got a Kahr, now, for that), so kinda wish I'd just got the plain "9". But great gun.

 

[mojester1]

Just suppose for a moment that the economy totally tanks, world wide.

Really, REALLY bad times set in, currency no longer has anyvalue, the Government is no longer sending out any entitlement/benfit checks, fuel is unobtainable and there is no more food showing up at the local super market.

You can buy a brick (500+) rounds for abouyt $20.00 right now.

Getring shot in a post societal collapse wil have a whole new meaning when there is no available medical care. An easily healed wound would probably be fatal in that situation.

I have an M&P 15-22 and I just got an M&P 22 and I got them because in that situation, they would be pretty valuable and effective.

I have other larger caliber and much more appropiate defense guns but none of them shoot 5,000 rounds of ammo for under $200.00

I agree 100% !!!
In fact I have the same weapons you do and got them for the same reasons !!!

 

[w0ady]

Just FYI, I have a S&W M&P 9C and LOVE it. Not quite small enough for concealed carry, though, (I got a Kahr, now, for that), so kinda wish I'd just got the plain "9". But great gun.

also check out the springfield xd9 subcompact. the m&p feels better in my hand but i shot the xd better so thats what i went with. 9mm recoil is more manageable to me which is why i dont go to a bigger caliber but .22 is just too little damage. everything is a compromise really so good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Kayback]

I have 2 guns my mp 22 rifle and my walther p22 pistol. I hav shot large caliber pistols and in the time it takes me set to take a second shot I can have 3 off with my Walther

This is a poor excuse to get around sufficient training. Unless you have a serious medical issue there is nothing besides practice and training that is stopping you running a full sized gun almost as fast. If you desparately need one you can always get a compensator installed on your full size.


A 9x19mm is hardly a large caliber.....

 

[Majorlk]

This is a poor excuse to get around sufficient training. Unless you have a serious medical issue there is nothing besides practice and training that is stopping you running a full sized gun almost as fast. If you desparately need one you can always get a compensator installed on your full size.


A 9x19mm is hardly a large caliber.....

So very true, on all accounts. There is so much more to self-defense than just buying a gun, loading the magazine and saying I am prepared to defend myself and my family - especially if one is talking about carrying outside the home.

 

[Kayback]

Before:

After:

.22 Stinger from a 4" barrel pistol at 7m.

I know it is cheating to use a full bottle of water because there isn't anywhere for the pressure wave to go, but it still gets the point across. .22 is dangerous.

I wouldn't use it for combat though.......

KBK

 

[SavageSmoker]

I have been a paramedic for over 15 years and have seen fatal GSW's inflicted from .22's. In most cases there is very little evidence of a GSW at all. Minimal external bleeding, minimal damage to clothing, small enterence holes, few other signs of a shooting at all. In fact, many times I have had to rely on the presence of shell casings at the scene to point me in the right Dx direction. Of course, larger caliber shootings are pretty easy to quickly identify and treat due to large holes and more visible trauma. Make no mistake, a well placed .22 round can certainly be fatal and a not-so-well placed .22 round will still ruin your day.

So a .22 might not be the best or first choice for SD, with proper training it is better then nothing. Of course, always do your best to avoid the situation of using it all together.

 

[Kayback]

Of course, always do your best to avoid the situation of using it all together.

Not always up to you.......

KBK

 

[rraisley]

the m&p feels better in my hand but i shot the xd better so thats what i went with.

The M&P feels better to me, too, but surprisingly (to me), I actually shoot my little Kahr PM9 better. L-o-n-g trigger pull that should not be accurate, but this little bugger really shoots. And weighs 16 ounces!