160gr Modern Bond WC Low Velocity Test Results-Casting video added

Skip Sackett

Skip Sackett

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Well, I got to the range for a test of the 160gr WC Modern Bond mold. The number on it is D-358-627. It comes out of the mold at .360" so this bullet could be used very easily for the 38S&W too.

My alloy is straight wheel weights and these were not water dropped.
Here is what they look like:
(The one in the middle)
3bullets1.jpg


The powder used was Bullseye @ 3.0gr. Seating depth was to the crimp groove. I filled the groove with case much like in the picture below:
158grPinLoads1.jpg


Cases were mixed and the primers were Remington standard small ones.
I shot them out of 3 different firearms, these ones below:
Theguns.jpg

The top one is one of my favorites, a M586 with a 6" barrel, (this one is the wife's) the one in the middle is a Beretta Laramie in 38spl, (it is similar in grip configuration to the S&W Model #3 in 44 Russian) and a newer version of the M637, my ankle gun. Several in recent days have asked about reduced loads for their M637. In the videos provided you will notice the difference in recoil from the bigger firearms to the smaller one. Quite a difference. You will have to click on each video to watch them:(I air-headed the length of the Laramie, it is 5" not 6".)

The Laramie:

Last but not least, the M637. Notice the increase in recoil:

The numbers shake out like this:
M586:
Low 725fps
High 755fps
Avg 741fps
ES 30fps
SD 9.89fps
Laramie:
Low 704fps
High 716fps
Avg 709fps
ES 112fps
SD 4.69fps!
M637:
Low 649fps
High 659fps
Avg 656fps
ES 10.5fps
SD 4.12fps!
From the last two revolvers the numbers turned out pretty consistent. They are all lower, much lower than what I usually shoot from all of these firearms but you could shoot a lot of these rounds through any one of the three without hurting yourself.

As for accuracy, they were all within 1" @ 12yrds from the bigger firearms and well over that from the smaller one. In the videos I intentionally dropped the hammer on an spent round just to see how I was doing with trigger control. Sorry if that bores you but I was trying to kill two birds with one stone! :)

I am going to take the charge up to 3.5gr of Bullseye and possibly change powders on this bullet in the near future. AA#2 and SR4756 are in the "cards" along with HP-38.

Hope this helps!
 
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Man, that is one good-lookin' bullet!! It is the first I've seen that has a nice, sharp edge around the preriphery of the nose, like the heavily plated bullets Fuzzy used to load in Safe Stop ammo. Enough SR 4756 under it to run at 800 or so from a snubby would sure be a fine "combat wadcutter" load for anyone who carries reloads.
 
Thanks!

38-44HD45 said:
Man, that is one good-lookin' bullet!!

Enough SR 4756 under it to run at 800 or so from a snubby would sure be a fine "combat wadcutter" load for anyone who carries reloads.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the kind words, J.

I've had a bunch of SR4756 under these in 357mag cases but the results weren't too good. My alloy was just a tad soft and this bullet seats deeper in the case than my 160gr LSWC so they came out of a 6" barrel @ 1400fps rather than the 1200fps I was shooting for!

I did take some more of these bullets to the range today only with a .5gr increase in powder.

Here are the results:
M586
Low 770fps
High 813fps
Avg 791fps
ES 42.9fps
SD 15.8fps
Laramie:
Low 742fps
High 760fps
Avg 754fps
ES 17.9fps
SD 7fps!
M637:
Low 686fps
High 734fps
Avg 706.7fps
ES 48fps
SD 18.9fps

In defense of the M637's ES, it had a dirty chamber that gave one high velocity round to the mix. Remove that, or clean the cylinder, and those numbers are going to be a lot better. It was very accurate out of the little gun though. @ 25 yards I was hitting a bowling pin every time. I thought that was pretty good. Recoil in the little bugger was noticably stouter. You wouldn't want to shoot a lot of these bullets out of it at one sitting. A little hotter for self defense would be fine. For shooting targets though, no thanks! Fine in the larger firearms.

I was playing around during the first shooting session. There was this weed that was just begging to be "clipped". So, I lined it up with a bowling pin and the shooting bench and let fly! I hit the weed twice, chopping it off just about a foot. Here are the results! (Believe it or not.)

weedpin-1.jpg


p.s. This weight of Bullseye is my goto target round for my M686 6". While I didn't shoot these out of that firearm, I did get the same velocities with this load as I do with my 160gr LSWC load.

FWIW
 
1400 fps. AND too soft? Man, I bet that was a long cleaning session! Let us know what you work up with 4756.

Is this bullet from the mold you got off fleabay, built by the now-defunct company? Do you know if anybody still makes anything similar?
 
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FleaBay it was!

Yes, this is the mold my wife bought for me for Christmas. It was advertised as an H&G but wrongly so. That's OK with me though 'cause it's just what I wanted! Modern Bond is out of business, at least I think it is.

Lee has a special mold they will build. I got a print from them. It weighs 200gr though!

Also, Ballisticast (I think) makes a "627" mold that has some different lengths to it that is really close to this one. It is one that H&G used to make.

1400fps and too soft wasn't all that bad in the M686 6". Using some vinegar/peroxide and following it up with Ed's Red and just a few patches and all of the lead was goine! It was a bunch though! :)
 
smith crazy said:
Also, Ballisticast (I think) makes a "627" mold that has some different lengths to it that is really close to this one. It is one that H&G used to make.
Click to expand...

Looking at the Ballisti-Cast catalog now. The #609 is a 150 grain boolit that looks like your Bond, but the really interesting one is the #727. It has the same shape, but it's 230 grains.
 
That's a big wholip for a 38!

ChuckS1 said:
Looking at the Ballisti-Cast catalog now. The #609 is a 150 grain boolit that looks like your Bond, but the really interesting one is the #727. It has the same shape, but it's 230 grains.
Click to expand...


You are right Chuck. The one I was thinking of was the 657. It has several lengths available, which corresponds then to weight.

I have some bullets that are loaded from a mold like that. I have tried several times to get my hands on it long enough to get me a bunch of bullets made up. No luck yet! Still trying though!

I was told, and I don't know how true it is, that Jerry Mikulek(sp) used a similar bullet in a wheel gun to spank everyone at one of the big shoots a long time ago. In fact, the guy that owns the gun store that has the mold told me that. Said he used to shoot against him from time to time in the olden days. Like I said, I don't know how ............:)
 
penn bullets sells the 230 grain version on limited runs.
 
Do you think you could safely hit 850 fps with these out of a .38 snub with +P pressures? Might just be the perfect round . . . I'd worry about using regular 160-gr data b/c of the fact that so much more of the bullet lies w/i the case.

Definitely neat - one of the few articles I've seen that's made me think that maybe I should try casting myself! :)
 
Wanna try?

Erich,
I am thinking that one would need an all steel snub to get that out of these bullets. The only one I have is a 3" M60. I'm not afraid to try wringing 850fps out of that, should be no problem.

I would suggest using SR4756 or Unique for it. If you would like to try working up that load, I could send you some bullets. I know you have several steel framed 2" and under guns. Might be interesting.

The extra in the case would mean that you would have to reduce some of our other loads a bit. Maybe by a whole grain.

The crimp groove is at least .030" further towards the nose of the bullet than my 160gr LSWC. I tried my loads for the LSWC in 357Mag with some real wild results.

In fact my 1250fps rounds turned into almost 1450fps with the same weight of powder! :eek:

At any rate, the offer stands. If you want some just send me a PM and I'll but some in the mail. There aren't any laws against sending lead bullets into NM is there?
:D
 
Casting up some bullets for Erich and Dale

Well, I almost forgot about sending some of these bullets to another forum member, Dale53. I have a small bottle of them ready, all I have to do is get off of my rump and get them sent!

(Thanks for the kudos, Andy. I hope you can stomach more!)

I thought I would post a better picture of the bullet along with some videos of me casting them up.

The technique is a little shaky at times, if you only knew how well that saying fit! ;)

At any rate, here is a better picture:

358162grWC.jpg


These are some nice looking bullets. The alloy I am going to send Erich is a little harder than what I normally cast these in. It has some Linotype added to help with the higher pressures he is going to try to attain.

It is 90% wheel weights and 10% Linotype, for whatever BHN that comes out to! :)

I started out on the bigger pot tonight but switched to the 10lb one instead. It seems with the added weight of the 20lbs of material above the spout, I couldn't get things to roll just right. Those that have cast before know that sometimes, even if everything seems the same, they just don't come out right! Or maybe it is just the story of my life! :D

OK, here is me starting off with a cold pot:


This one is next:



Fluxing the pot:




Just starting to cast after the mold is hot:




OK experts, let me have it! I know, out there somewhere, there is someone lurking just waiting to tell me how wrong I am doing things! Well, the joke is one them! 'Cause I will listen to the criticism and be better for it! :eek:
With the technique I use, if things are going real well, with a 4 cavity mold I can get several hundred 160gr bullets in an hour or so. Everything has to be going just right though.

Now, to size them to .358" and lube them with White Label Lube's BAC and get them sent out.

It will be a week or so Erich as I have some pressing family stuff to take care of first. Have you decided on a load or powder yet? Are you going to run them through your 3" snub or maybe your carbine! Oh, that would be cool!
 
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Sweet looking boolits and great videos Skip. I'll have to get into casting sooner or later.
 
That's one nice range report and even nicer casting tutorial! You make this casting thing look all too easy... Love your video's, they make me feel as if I was there watching you in action.

Thanks, Skip!

:)

Mike
 
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I love this forum!

Doug, Mike,
Thanks for the kind words. You guys are great.

I have been thinking about doing some casting videos for a while now just to show how it's done by one caster. I didn't have a tutor other than the manuals and folks from some of the casting forums. They have been big helps too.

I do know this, doing it right or wrong, I can have the bullets I want, when I want them. In today's component climate, I think that is a real plus.

Thanks again, friends.
 
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