17-3 - rear sight off center, possible canted barrel?

[k22fan]

The way your revolver's windage would be permanently adjusted is ugly. S&W used to train armorers at large city police departments to adjust Model 10 windage by bending the frame. The factory method is to whack the side of the frame outside the barrel threads with a babbitt bar. Brownell's sells the bars. It is best to get a feel for how hard to smack the frame practicing on Model 10s that someone else owns.

I am most critical of the imperfections in my best match guns. I learned the hard way that having those imperfections fixed is not worth risking the gun no longer performing as well after it is improved. It is wiser to improve a gun that is not your best one.

I'd go back to the store that sold me .22 LR cartridges that group in one small whole and buy them out. If you buy through a different source or later in the future you will likely get cartridges out of a different lot.

 

[model3sw]

The portable rest I am using. It fits inside the range bag and can be set up and adjusted quickly.

The only "acid" test for this is in a machine rest, regardless of what seems to be your profound expertise with the tripod barrel rest. That grouping is excellent shooting for sure.

And PLEASE, don't take any advise like "whacking the barrel" or frame or any part of the gun. I'm getting physically ill just imagining that. I won't be able to sleep tonight,

If you truly wanted to measure the front sight for slight offset, a ruler doesn't get the job done. You need some precision measuring instruments. Micrometers have gotten so advanced and so cheap now, there's no excuse not to have one.

Try a laser bore sighter, first. That alone may solve this minor dilemma.

I still have my Brown and Sharpe Micrometer (DOM appx 1950) I bought used, from a retired machinist in 1972 for the bargain price of $50 (that was near a full week's pay for me then) while a new B&S would have been in excess of $100, 1972 dollars.

It is still as excellent as the day I purchased it but I also have a few digital, made in China, micrometers that are just as precise. AND, the Chinese mics are expendable, the Brown and Sharpe, is not.

 

[Grayfox]

It may be just you. I know that in my case almost every handgun I own has the rear sight adjusted just a bit to the left. It all about how I hold the gun.
If the sights will adjust out to hit correctly, don't worry about it.

 

[shawn mccarver]

My goodness, it does not seem to matter what members tell the OP, because he is apparently convinced the barrel is not "clocked" correctly.

I have been shooting S&W revolvers for almost 50 years, and I have examined them every closely over that time.

Nothing is wrong with your front sight, its placement, the installation of the barrel, or anything else.

If that particular placement of the front sight results in a tight group where you want the holes to be, then you have it sighted in properly.

If you can't stand it, then sell it.

But, there is nothing wrong with it.

Just so you know, because of the way I hold a revolver, I ALWAYS have to adjust my rear sight over as a centered rear sight puts my nice tight group slightly left. That is because I am right handed and crank my hand around the grip to get better leverage on the trigger for DAO shooting.

I care not one bit that my sight is adjusted a little over. That is what it is there for.

Do I shoot fixed sight revolvers? Yes. I use "Kentucky windage!"

 

[minconrevo]

Back in the 1970's I acquired a new Mod 17 that had the front sight installed way to one side. A trip back to Springfield MA under warranty took care of that.

There is also a possibility that the bore is not concentric to the barrel body.

Still if it will shoot to POA with the adjustable sights cranked a wee bit I think I'd leave it be. Shoot it and enjoy!

 

[lucidreamer]

I know this is not a Colt forum but still wanted to show my new toy that I just picked up yesterday from a local gentleman. This is a nice 1978 Colt Diamondback 4" .22LR in pretty good shape.
It took me to drive about an hour each way to meet with the seller. After some negotiation the price I paid for it was probably right, not cheap but not crazy high like some are asking for this gun online. I would probably be able to get a better deal on the internet for the same revolver, but it is always safer to see and inspect the gun prior to making a purchase.
I took the sideplate off to clean and lubricate the internals. It really looks like it was hardly used before, the parts are still being worked to each other and the action can be smoothed out with more usage. Overall, the internals are something I need to learn about, I did not dare to do the complete disassembly yet because I am new to Colts and they are more complex than Smiths.
I have not had a chance to try it at the range yet. There may be the same rear sight centering issue as I have here with my 17-3. I have seen lots of pictures of Diamondbacks with the rear sight off-center so this may be just normal and not a big deal. Just curious how accurate it shoots and it is more important because this is a 4" inch lugged barrel, the balance is pretty good and overall it feels great in hand and just oozes quality from the past. May not be the Python quality but still on a totally different level compared to almost every modern gun these days.
I checked the cylinder to barrel gap and it is around .002" where my 17-3 is exactly .006" throwing flames to the sides sometimes. I modded my 17-9 recently to reduce the gap to a minimum by raising the extractor star a little bit on the cylinder and it feels so much better now, shoots more quiet and has almost no side bursts, I just love it that way.
As many already know and have both Colt and Smith revolvers - Colts feel like fine and precise pieces of machinery with tight lockups and small tolerances, but Smiths are built more rugged and feel like tanks. I actually feel like keeping it in the safe instead of taking it to the range regularly, it just feels too good to shoot.
May go to the range tomorrow or Thursday and post my impressions later.

 

[Hondo44]

luciddreamer,

You're correct, the barrel is off.

I'm compelled to agree with gmborkovic in spite of what most posters have said, the barrel is CLEARLY about one degree from being tightened straight up!

And it's true, if it were clocked correctly at 12:00 o'clock, the rear sight would have to be moved even further to the left! So something is definitely wrong and I'm of the opinion that the barrel was turned to the right to compensate for the problem, probably at the factory.

Either the barrel shoots severely to the left or the front sight is off. Turning the barrel off center is correcting the symptom and not addressing the problem!

Personally I would not be accepting of a barrel obviously off center like that. You are right to post about this.

Because I do my own gun smithing, I would turn the barrel until the rib properly matches the frame.

Then if the front sight is straight up and down I'd mill the right side of the front blade to correct the windage with the rear sight adjusted to the center. If the front blade winds up being too narrow, I'd replace it.

If the front sight was canted, after clocking the barrel correctly, I'd remove it and mill the bottom of the base until the sight sits straight.

But if I were you, I'd send it back to S&W and request a shipping label from them because it will cost you a bundle for shipping. If you decide to do this, re-install the factory sight, and adjust the windage to where it gets the point of impact in the center of the target, so they can see how much adjustment to the left is still needed to correct it even though the barrel is already off center!

 

[lucidreamer]

I took my Diamondback .22 4" to the range this noon and was happy to find out that it does POA with the rear sight almost in the center, well, it still needed a click or two to move it to the left which is fine.
It does not have the same accuracy as my 17-3, I was able to do 2-3" groups with Federal Value pack from 25 yards using a rest and less than 2" with CCI Standard Velocity, my favorite ammo. What I noticed is that after a few dozen of shots its accuracy seemed to decrease. I do not know why but I got home and cleaned it thoroughly using CLP, gun-cleaner, brass brushes and bore-snake. The barrel was clean anyways but the cylinder chambers are a bit rough and show machine marks with some lead fouling after previous shooter or me. I do not believe the chamber condition may contribute to accuracy loss but will check it again next time. Any feedback on how to increase the accuracy are highly welcome.

I think this kind of accuracy is still acceptable for such a revolver taking into account its shorter barrel. It still shoots better than I can shot it offhand anyways.

Really nice revolver, very pleasant to shoot and perfectly balanced overall.