1905 2nd Change Target Questions

[gunnison]

In my search for a 1905 2nd Change Target I have some questions
I am hoping to find some information on. I realize there is a size able
overlap in serial numbers of the 1st and 2nd change 1905s. And that
a letter is the way to verify a serial number.
Since a seller would understandably be hesitant to pull the side plate
to check for the Feb 6,06 patent date I would like to see if there are
any examples that have been found that are 2nd Change Targets out
of the accepted 120,000 to 146,000 range stated in letters since
serial numbered guns can be quite a ways out of sequence in shipping
dates.
The questions are mainly concerning earlier numbered guns and their
markings and are as follows;

Are there any 1905 2nd Change Targets verified under serial number
100,000 such as in the high 98,000 to 99,000 numbers?

Are there any that bear April 9,89 and Mar 27,94 Patent dates on
the top of the barrel?

Are any of the early barrels marked 38 S&W Special and 38 U.S.
Service Ctg. ? Are those in the Higher accepted range only marked
38 S&W Special?

It is my understanding that the early revolvers don't necessarily
have the dowels under the extractor star. Is there any indication
when the dowels started to appear? Have any 1905 2nd Change
Targets in the higher serial number range NOT had the dowels?

Thank you,
Gunnison

 

[RKmesa]

Calling Mike Priwer... He is an expert on the early K-frames and has a wonderful collection of early target K-frames, including some outstanding 1902s.

 

[glowe]

1st Change revolvers have rounded extractor star ends. This is one easy thing to look for, since the 2nd Change is supposed to have squared off extractor stars. This is just one of several small changes made between the 1st and 2nd Change revolvers, and my guess is that all of them did not occur at once, so clearly defining a transition serial number is not possible. A letter will not answer the question and most likely will come back with whatever you said it was on your form.

I do not think that anyone has nailed down and documented that transition date from 1st to 2nd, but the image attached is from shat I call a 1st Change Target, in the 107,000 range, and that is how I externally check to make up my mind. Not sure what you mean by whether there were any Target 2nd Change, since there were target guns made in every model and change going back to the Model 1899.

Lastly, the latest 1st Change 38 Special serial number 100,XXX, has the two line caliber stamping. It should be somewhat obvious by now that this transition is very sketchy. Roy and Neal, plus experts of the day could not figure it out with the resources at their disposal, so unlikely anyone will be able to do much better.

 

[gunnison]

Gary,
Thank You for your response. To clear up the the question if there
were any Target 2nd change, what I was wondering is if there have
been any 1905 2nd Change targets in the higher serial number
range that does not have the dowels underneath the extractor star.
I did neglect to mention the difference of rounded and squared
extractor star ends.

The fact that the information on the transition from 1st to 2nd change
is very sketchy to say the least is not only what brings these questions
about but at the same time is very interesting to study. I do not think
there even is a definitive answer just interested to know if there might
be any 1905 2nd change targets that someone has found in the
serial number range below the generally accepted range.

I do have a 1905 1st Change Target in the 106,XXX range that has the
rounded end extractor star and 2 line caliber stamping.
I have not sent for a letter on it.

Thanks again,
Gunnison