1905 M & P Target, circa 1936?

[Gun Relics]

Just picked this up. It dates to around 1936 and I've asked for a letter. I'm really not up to speed on these pre-war models. It's in great shape and all the numbers match except the grips (which fit perfectly). It's chambered for .38 special.

Does it look completely original to you? The box I had already. As far as the boxes go, did the Target models have the same box as the M & P of the time? Odd that the 1937 catalog shows the logo on the left side of the pistol. This was around the time they switched over to the right side.

Serial number 677, XXX

 

[daddio202]

Nice find! I am not one of the experts here, but the gun looks original to me. I have a special order that is serial 668546 that shipped 1938 and has the logo on the side plate too. It was during the depression and they didn't necessarily shipped in order, but yours may have shipped later than 1936.

 

[Gun Relics]

Nice find! I am not one of the experts here, but the gun looks original to me. I have a special order that is serial 668546 that shipped 1938 and has the logo on the side plate too. It was during the depression and they didn't necessarily shipped in order, but yours may have shipped later than 1936.

I think you're right that it's a later date than 1936 since mine has a higher serial number than yours. Awaiting the letter.

 

[paplinker]

Nice MP Target!

I have a August 1936 one myself 653365
I have two in the 670xxx range from late 1938
A 667177 from 1940
Are the stock serial numbers even close?
I always thought magnas looked great on prewar K frames with the large trademark

 

[pasound]

I looked in my 4th SCSW, and the number is probably 1936 - early 1937. But they were not 1905's. Those were Hand Ejectors. The M&P and Target designations started later, especially as they gained adjustable sights.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

.38 M&P target serial 670021 was shipped in March 1938.
.38 M&P target serial 677114 was shipped in June 1939.
.38 M&P target serial 677419 was shipped in July 1939.

 

[Gun Relics]

Nice MP Target!

I have a August 1936 one myself 653365
I have two in the 670xxx range from late 1938
A 66717 from 1940
Are the stock serial numbers even close?
I always thought magnas looked great on prewar K frames with the large trademark

The stocks are 808,000, pistol is 691,000 - doesn't sound close but they made a ton of M and P's so they are probably within a couple of years I would guess. Whoever fitted these either got lucky or was talented, they snap in place like Lego pieces. It cost $1 in 1937 to upgrade to Magna stocks - such a deal!

 

[Gun Relics]

.38 M&P target serial 670021 was shipped in March 1938.
.38 M&P target serial 677114 was shipped in June 1939.
.38 M&P target serial 677419 was shipped in July 1939.

Thanks, much appreciated - 1939 it is!

 

[Gun Relics]

I looked in my 4th SCSW, and the number is probably 1936 - early 1937. But they were not 1905's. Those were Hand Ejectors. The M&P and Target designations started later, especially as they gained adjustable sights.

Thanks for the info! I wondered about that description myself. Here's a copy of the 1937 Catalog page. But it's not considered the 1905 4th change?

 

[JP@AK]

But it's not considered the 1905 4th change?

Well, no. According to the Roper scheme (his book was written in the 1930s and published at the end of WWII) it is a Model of 1905 4th Change. But S&W did not catalog it that way, nor was it listed as such in the All Model Circular, or on the box label.

S&W stopped using the Model of 1905 nomenclature just before WWI. After that, it was just the .38 Military & Police model.

 

[Gun Relics]

Well, no. According to the Roper scheme (his book was written in the 1930s and published at the end of WWII) it is a Model of 1905 4th Change. But S&W did not catalog it that way, nor was it listed as such in the All Model Circular, or on the box label.

S&W stopped using the Model of 1905 nomenclature just before WWI. After that, it was just the .38 Military & Police model.

Interesting, I have to agree. I was going off the Blue Book, which lists it this way.

 

[RKmesa]

GR:

Beautiful M&P Target. The Large Roll Mark on the side plate is consistent with K-Frame target guns in that SN range. They shipped in the hinged "patent box" (like the one that your gun is on) the same as the M&Ps of the 1930s. Here is a photo of some of my M&P Target end labels:



Note that sometimes they had "Target" printed on the label and sometimes "Target" was stamped with a rubber stamp. And sometimes "Target" was written in pencil on the bottom of the box, like this M&P Target box:



Here is a link to a thread that I started on the M&P Target guns.

Pre-War Target M&P Thread - Post Your Photos

Once again - Congrats!!!

 

[rct269]

I figured I had to get in on this guessing game too, so out came my book; and my latest one is 659118. The good news is it was a special order, and those were shipped within a matter of a day or so upon completion----and it went out on December 23, 1936.

The bad news is what's special about it is the front sight----a Marble Ivory Bead. A little voice popped up, and asked if I thought they'd make up a whole gun in order to be able to ship one with an odd ball front sight----or maybe just swap out the sight---in a few minutes? Another little voice allowed as how that was a good question--and then I crawled back into bed for a few more Z's.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[daddio202]

I figured I had to get in on this guessing game too, so out came my book; and my latest one is 659118. The good news is it was a special order, and those were shipped within a matter of a day or so upon completion----and it went out on December 23, 1936.

The bad news is what's special about it is the front sight----a Marble Ivory Bead. A little voice popped up, and asked if I thought they'd make up a whole gun in order to be able to ship one with an odd ball front sight----or maybe just swap out the sight---in a few minutes? Another little voice allowed as how that was a good question--and then I crawled back into bed for a few more Z's.

Ralph Tremaine

If you read my letter for the special order I posted you will see it says the front sight was slotted for a fee to accept a pinned front sight ( mine a gold bead). So I do believe they would make a whole new barrel, slot it then attach to a non-target frame or take an unfinished gun slot and pin front sight then finish it. I have a few m&p target guns but the special order is one of my favorites.

 

[Gun Relics]

Here is a link to a thread that I started on the M&P Target guns.

Pre-War Target M&P Thread - Post Your Photos

Once again - Congrats!!!

Really appreciate the info, Richard. I'll keep an eye out for the Target marked box. The good thing about M & P is there seems to be boxes popping up all the time for them. If you run across any for sale, I would like to know.

You guys are a BIG help. the knowledge here is unlike anything I've experienced.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Here's the only early target model I own - shipped on June 7, 1939 to a gun store in New Haven CT. I acquired it because 1939 is my birth year. Note the verified original "humpback" hammer.

John


(Click for larger image)

 

[Gun Relics]

Here's the only early target model I own - shipped on June 7, 1939 to a gun store in New Haven CT. I acquired it because 1939 is my birth year. Note the verified original "humpback" hammer.

John

Is this also a humpback hammer? I'm not familiar with the term.

 

[rct269]

If you read my letter for the special order I posted you will see it says the front sight was slotted for a fee to accept a pinned front sight ( mine a gold bead). So I do believe they would make a whole new barrel, slot it then attach to a non-target frame or take an unfinished gun slot and pin front sight then finish it. I have a few m&p target guns but the special order is one of my favorites.

Apologies---given that such is in order. I very likely did read the letter for the special order, but didn't pay much attention to it simply because of my mind set. My most recent collection was of target guns---at least one each of every one from the beginning (NM #3's) to the end of the 5 screws. I jokingly profess to not even understand why fixed sight guns are even made. It's been that way since the beginning---1957. It only took me about 30 years to realize/decide that collection wasn't a collection---simply an accumulation of guns with target sights that had no history, and told no story. I sold damn near all of them (135 guns) and started over---this time with what I deemed to be REAL target guns. I ended up with almost exactly half the number of guns---and learned a lesson.

FOCUS!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[RKmesa]

Is this also a humpback hammer? I'm not familiar with the term.

Nope, that is the standard hammer. Take a careful look at John's hammer and you will see the difference...

Note the verified original "humpback" hammer.

John


(Click for larger image)

 

[Gun Relics]

Yes, I see the difference, thanks.