1911 for everyday carry?

[Will Carry]

I first want to say that I love my 1911 but.....

Yesterday I took a really good class called Handgun Self Defense. This was 9 hours at an outdoor range in front of a target with three instructors and 500 rounds of ammo. It seemed like every other pistol in the class was a 1911. They had Wilson Combat, Kimbers, S&Ws, Sig. I could have payed off my wifes car with all the high dollar steel.
After going toe to toe with these 1911s for a day, with my little Glock 19, I will wear my Glock 19 proudly and keep my Colt Government in the safe with the wheel guns. I cannot see one single advantage that the 1911 offers over a modern pistol like the M&P, Glock and XDs. They are heavy, have a manual safety and a limited magazine capacity. Looking at the targets I could tell that many of these shooters went out and bought these expensive relics and did not know how to shoot them, much less fight with them.

 

[Mphstiger1981]

I love them, too...but my favorite carry gun is a Glock 17. Not about round count, but it just fits my big fat hand better than the G19, and it is not a load to carry with the proper holster and belt.

Of course to your second point about the shooters who "went out and bought these expensive relics and did not know how to shoot them,.." I think you could probably say the same about any gun. In most of the handgun classes I've taken there is always someone (male and female) with a gun they just bought who has no idea how to operate it. It's not a gun bias, its more of an indictment of some of the folks who won't spend time with the gun. Got to learn to crawl before you run, you know.

 

[Pote]

the wonderguns will never ever come close to having a trigger like a 1911 nor the accuracy. Reliability is subjective as many low end 1911s need some help, but a solidly built and maintained 1911 is tops....and honestly, and its only a theory, I suspect people that already have a handle on their 1911s shoot and operate them with high effectiveness - yet you were possibly witnessing 1911 newbs, since that was the feeling you got. They were there to learn apparently. I for one, can shoot my 1911s with a one-ragged hole groupings all day long. Nothing touches their trigger, pointability, accuracy for me.

the safety system IMO is perfect. With practice, the TS comes off as you present, and the rest is history. They conceal probably better than most any other gun, due to their inherent thinness. You will be hard pressed to find a slimmer gun. barrel length is inconsequential and IWB, they just disappear. that's my take but obviously everyones mileage will vary.

Having said all that...I've been seriously infected by S&W wheelguns...and have been carrying my 627 everyday since I got it. So basically, disregard everything I just said. lmao!!!

 

[Ltlbear]

Sure why not. Thin, nice trigger, easy to point, TS is natural and with and aluminum frame, not that heavy. Plus a 45 starts that big, a 9 has to expand to get there. Just kidding, not starting a caliber war. Been done here already I am sure. My two primary choices are a 1911 or a wheel gun.

 

[oldman45]

Let's see.

A 1911 has been around for 100 yrs. Glock has 25 yrs and been remodeled four times.

A 1911 does not go KaBoom as do Glock.

For the most part, a 1911 will increase in value while a Glock will never increase in worth.

A 1911 looks better than a Glock and can be customized to the owners taste.

A 1911 is ergonomically correct and a Glock is not.

A 1911 is not prone to limp wristing. Maybe you do not limp wrist your Glock now but what happens if your hand is injured?

A 1911 is not made of plastic.

Makers of 1911 guns did not have to give away their guns to get law enforcement business. Now since Glock stopped that, departments are leaving Glock.

I can continue but felt I would give you a few reasons.

 

[OFT II]

My favorite is a Colt Lightweight Commander 45. It weights 3/4 pound less than a full size steel Government, has a great trigger, is accurate and packs well. It seems that the folks that like the 1911 style are older. The younger people tend to go for the poly frame double stacks. I can't say which is better but I'll stick to my guns, pun intended.

 

[crofoot629]

I carry Glocks a lot too.
Mostly a G19 or a G26. If it’s the Glock 26 I often times carry the antiquated S&W revolver Model 442 as well. I like the New York Reload.

I also often times carry either one of my two Wilson Combat 1911’s, that I bought in 1996, and have ten’s of thousands of rounds through them with a lot of IPSC matches under their belts.

I too took a “really good class” called Thunder Ranch Tactical Hand Gun. It was so good I took it 4 times. As well as Urban Rifle twice. My wife took the handgun class twice too.

I’ve seen Clint Smith teach with both a 1911 or a Glock. He obviously teaches with revolvers too.

Emory

 

[Doug M.]

I carried a Yam 10-8 for several years as a duty gun. A first quality 1911 is a great tool, with many advantages. However, one has to train regularly in the appropriate gun handling skills for that gun. I used a Wilson KZ9 as a training understudy, and it's a great shooter. As a cost effective choice, though, the various Glocks in 9mm are probably among the best all around choices.

 

[GKC]

I own 1911s, and I love them...they are, to me, works of art as well as serious weapons. Glocks are tools...and they have their own beauty, in terms of function. I also have Glocks and other polymer pistols.

I think of it like this: I own an expensive watch, a fine piece of craftsmanship, unique, and one in which I take pride to own and to display. It keeps excellent time, and it pleases me just to look at it. I also own a Casio diver's watch which is a fine, functional piece that keeps excellent time. It wasn't expensive, and they are common, but it is totally reliable.

Guess which watch I wear for social occasions and which watch I wear to work?

 

[venomballistics]

I carry the 1911.
At the very least, this gun represents an ideal starting point in a ccw given its thin profile effective caliber and its overall layout.
concessions made from this point usually wont take you too far away from a 1911. perhaps being just customizations made to one.
Parts support for this gun are so vast and complete your 1911 may start life as a frame, which may be alloy (I may have seen some polymer frames as well) To this frame parts are fit per your own personal taste and in a few weeks to a few days, depending on your skill with files, you can be test driving your "perfect" 1911
no other gun is quite so vast as the 1911.

 

[Will Carry]

Let's see.

A 1911 has been around for 100 yrs. Glock has 25 yrs and been remodeled four times. Not a factor in a gun fight

A 1911 does not go KaBoom as do Glock. Purely speculative

For the most part, a 1911 will increase in value while a Glock will never increase in worth. Not a factor in a gun fight

A 1911 looks better than a Glock and can be customized to the owners taste. Not a factor in a gun fight

A 1911 is ergonomically correct and a Glock is not. Not a factor

A 1911 is not prone to limp wristing. Maybe you do not limp wrist your Glock now but what happens if your hand is injured?


A 1911 is not made of plastic. Not a factor

Makers of 1911 guns did not have to give away their guns to get law enforcement business. Now since Glock stopped that, departments are leaving Glock. Speculative
I can continue but felt I would give you a few reasons.

I not trying to start anything (although I may) I'm just trying to seriously analyze what the 1911 has on a modern pistol. So far I have 1) better trigger 2) less prone to limp wristing. The accuracy advantage of a 1911 is not much of a factor in a street fight but may be in competition.
On the other hand: A manual safety is not an advantage in a gun fight. No safety is an advantage in a gun fight.

The advantage of a modern pistol (Glock seems to be the chosen example so lets go with Glock)
1) high magazine capacity 2) No manual safety. 3) No hammer to snag on your jacket.

 

[Ron H.]

I first want to say that I love my 1911 but.....

Yesterday I took a really good class called Handgun Self Defense. This was 9 hours at an outdoor range in front of a target with three instructors and 500 rounds of ammo. It seemed like every other pistol in the class was a 1911. They had Wilson Combat, Kimbers, S&Ws, Sig. I could have payed off my wifes car with all the high dollar steel.
After going toe to toe with these 1911s for a day, with my little Glock 19, I will wear my Glock 19 proudly and keep my Colt Government in the safe with the wheel guns. I cannot see one single advantage that the 1911 offers over a modern pistol like the M&P, Glock and XDs. They are heavy, have a manual safety and a limited magazine capacity. Looking at the targets I could tell that many of these shooters went out and bought these expensive relics and did not know how to shoot them, much less fight with them.

Sir, first off, kudos to you for actually taking a class. Not enough of us do that. That said, what you learned in that class is what works for you. It's not universal.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[Sprefix]

You can't mean J.M.Brownings' 1911.......

I've had 14 Glocks (9mm to 10mm). They are very cool guns in their own right. I am still contemplating a 19 with tritium night sights. My #1 complaint with a Glock is the HUGE under-cut at the bottom of the chamber. Blow one up and you'll see why, and you should rethink your choice if you have an ounce of sanity or just like your hands to work the way God intended them to. Now, the 1911 and it's berating is something, if not downright humorous to me. John Moses Browning designed the 1911 and many more incredible designs that are years ahead of their time. No gun ever has seen such widespread use with such efficiency(the 1911). When they are properly made and maintained (like ANY mechanical device) they are second to none and that is PRECISELY why they are so proliferate. It seems most large gun manufacturers are producing the 1911- Smith and Wesson!!,Colt,Remington,and Sig Sauer just to name a few. It is the 350 Chevy motor of guns. If it can be done and be expected to last, it can be done to a 1911. Any person with any gun or other item that requires any skill can fail miserably if the person is not properly trained on the item in question. My 1911 or 1911-design will be, and is, absolutely on my person or at my side to defend my life or others should it come down to that. God speed and best of luck in all endeavors as we all are still allowed an opinion. JMO

 

[Will Carry]

Thanks for not being offended by my questioning of such a cultural icon as the 1911. I really want to learn. My life may one day depend on this. At the range my Colt Government 1911 is the most accurate weapon I own and is my "go to" pistol when I am competing against another shooter.
I did so well with the modern plastic pistol that I have to question whether my love for the 1911 is just sentimental BS or not. I am not trying to make a statement when I carry I just want to have a chance of defending my life.
My Glock yesterday did everything extremely well and I'm thinking it out performed the 1911s. Maybe it was just me.

 

[oldman45]

I not trying to start anything (although I may) I'm just trying to seriously analyze what the 1911 has on a modern pistol. So far I have 1) better trigger 2) less prone to limp wristing. The accuracy advantage of a 1911 is not much of a factor in a street fight but may be in competition.
On the other hand: A manual safety is not an advantage in a gun fight. No safety is an advantage in a gun fight.

The advantage of a modern pistol (Glock seems to be the chosen example so lets go with Glock)
1) high magazine capacity 2) No manual safety. 3) No hammer to snag on your jacket.

Many of us have 50+ yrs of handgun shooting. I have almost 40 yrs of investigating & reconstructing crime and accidents. Often the work includes looking at gun related injuries. Trust me, plastic is the cause of many injuries and lawsuits.

Glocks do go KaBoom. Just google Glock KaBoom. You will find hundreds of cases and many happened to police officers.

You are right. Many of my reasons are not going to relate to a gun fight. However I do not buy or carry a gun looking to have a gun fight. If one happens, any of my guns, including my Glocks will work fine. I would not own a gun that will not do the job I need of it.

As to investment, buy a nice 1911, keep it a few years and sell it for more than you initially paid for it. Buy a Glock at $500 and at no time in the future will you be able to get more than $375-400 for it. Collect 15-20 guns and lose 20-25% on your investment and it will mean something to you.

Glock not being ergonomically correct does matter. There is recoil on the wrist. Repetitive shooting takes a toll on your wrist.

Again, I am not trying to argue the point. I am only giving the points that matter to gun buyers.

 

[Sprefix]

I have this nickel plated Jennings .22 that shoots VERY accurately and has no malfunctions.....!!?? How did this happen? They are junk.................just ask anyone. The little thing is an anomaly, I'm guessing. If it works, and it works for you, then all is good and we'll hope and pray we don't have to use them for other than fun. I have an incredible fondness for my Sig P220 (early West German with the pointed spur hammer) .45 acp. That gun has NEVER had ANY type of malfunction and is way better than tactically accurate.

 

[Ron H.]

... My Glock yesterday did everything extremely well and I'm thinking it out performed the 1911s. Maybe it was just me.

Sir, you're talking about two different things here. If you want to compare the pistols, take the class again with your 1911 and compare that to how you did with the Glock. If you want to compare your shooting to someone else's, pistol choice is almost immaterial.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[Doug M.]

On the other hand: A manual safety is not an advantage in a gun fight. No safety is an advantage in a gun fight.

The advantage of a modern pistol (Glock seems to be the chosen example so lets go with Glock)
1) high magazine capacity 2) No manual safety. 3) No hammer to snag on your jacket.

*
The thumb safety is a training issue. That may present a cost/benefit problem, but is surely not a major issue other than that. Mag capacity can be an issue - the G17 is a winner here. For personal defense, that is less likely important than in a duty gun, and even then the work environment can be a big variable. My agency has a very rural precinct, and an urban one. In the country, backup can be a LONG way off, and carrying a 1911 I had an 8 round Wilson ETM in it, and 4 more on my belt, with a few more in my patrol box and carbine case. Even with the G21 I carry 3 spare mags.

 

[Will Carry]

Sir, you're talking about two different things here. If you want to compare the pistols, take the class again with your 1911 and compare that to how you did with the Glock. If you want to compare your shooting to someone else's, pistol choice is almost immaterial.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

THAT is a great idea! I will do just that. That is the only way to set my mind at ease.

I will say that of the three pistols that failed during this class one was a FN, one was a Kimber Ultra Raptor II (or something) 1911 and the other was a 1911 that the shooter pressed the slide stop with his right finger. The instructor came over smiling and said "watch this" and pushed the slide stop back in with his finger. So that is 66% of the failures in the class were 1911s and 33% were FNs. No Glocks, M&Ps or XDs failed that I was aware of.

 

[oldman45]

*
The thumb safety is a training issue. That may present a cost/benefit problem, but is surely not a major issue other than that. Mag capacity can be an issue - the G17 is a winner here. For personal defense, that is less likely important than in a duty gun, and even then the work environment can be a big variable. My agency has a very rural precinct, and an urban one. In the country, backup can be a LONG way off, and carrying a 1911 I had an 8 round Wilson ETM in it, and 4 more on my belt, with a few more in my patrol box and carbine case. Even with the G21 I carry 3 spare mags.

Doug, how often have you needed more than one magazine?

I always said if I am in a drawn out gun fight, I will go home and the others can call me once it is over. I am a big fat guy and that makes me an easy target that is slow moving. My first shot must count.