1911 for everyday carry?

[cmort666]

I've regularly carried a full size Norinco M1911. After replacement of the garbage small parts, it's been 100% reliable.

With 200gr. Hornady TAP, it's both superbly accurate and extremely controllable. In fact, it's MUCH more controllable than my Glock 22.

I feel every bit as well armed with that Norinco as I do with my Glock 19.

 

[oldman45]

*
Never. The County with which I have been a reserve deputy and from which I am about to retire is pretty big, and the less populated patrol districts are big. It is not uncommon to be a HARD 30 minute drive from the nearest backup, and not unknown to take an hour to get to some calls. If you don't have the stuff in your car and/or on your person, you may never get it. I also carried 3 spare mags of AR ammo even when I did not have my own carbine. Where I worked 2000-2007 as a prosecutor, and where I am now, it would not be a shock to have no cops within an hour. Large counties, low density tax base. As Pat Rogers says, policing is very regional. Visitors from Chicago/LA/and especially NYPD are aghast at the territory covered. A serious call in NY is likely to have 20 or more cops in 60 seconds.

We did have a shooting in 2005 or so in which so many rounds were expended due to the odd nature of the circumstances, a resupply had to be brought out from the armory. It was admittedly a really weird situation, but for those there, it was a huge test sample.

Around here, backup can be miles away as well.

My thoughts on ammo supply is that in the very few extended shootings I have studied (never been in one and do not want to be), the bad guy had rifles. LEO going to the car was picked off. Handguns were useless at those distances. This was brought out in both the Miami and L.A shootings. Sadly, most drawn out shootings leave LEO injured or dead. The only officer I personally know to run a gun (Glock 17) dry was placed on 45 day suspension for Reckless Discharge of his sidearm. All he did was fire at a car trying to run him over in an effort to flee a felony crime. I have met, dealt with, worked with or for hundreds of officers over the years and not one ever had to change a mag during a shooting. I was wondering if you had.

And Thank you for the service you have provided the citizens of your county. I know two attorneys in this area, one a prosecuting DA and one a personal injury attorney that serve as reserve officers. I admire both of them as well.

 

[Doug M.]

The only officer I personally know to run a gun (Glock 17) dry was placed on 45 day suspension for Reckless Discharge of his sidearm. All he did was fire at a car trying to run him over in an effort to flee a felony crime. I have met, dealt with, worked with or for hundreds of officers over the years and not one ever had to change a mag during a shooting. I was wondering if you had.

*
I think we had one a couple of years back, but I can't swear to it. I agree it would be unusual at best, but ... better to have and not need than need and not have.

That suspension sure seems ... iffy.

 

[Minnehaha]

I'm new to this forum, but I'll put my 2 cents in on carrying 1911s. I have a Dan Wesson VBob Combat Commander that is a beautiful handgun with the lightest, smoothest trigger you can imagine, and it is extremely accurate and completely reliable. It is however, heavy, big and hard to conceal. I much prefer to carry my Glock 26, or my S&W 649, especially in the summer months. The Glock and the Smith are also a lot easier to maintain and I don't get as concerned with surface dings. As much as I love the 1911, I guess I prefer to leave it at home.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

Around here, backup can be miles away as well.

My thoughts on ammo supply is that in the very few extended shootings I have studied (never been in one and do not want to be), the bad guy had rifles. LEO going to the car was picked off. Handguns were useless at those distances. This was brought out in both the Miami and L.A shootings. Sadly, most drawn out shootings leave LEO injured or dead. The only officer I personally know to run a gun (Glock 17) dry was placed on 45 day suspension for Reckless Discharge of his sidearm. All he did was fire at a car trying to run him over in an effort to flee a felony crime. I have met, dealt with, worked with or for hundreds of officers over the years and not one ever had to change a mag during a shooting. I was wondering if you had.

And Thank you for the service you have provided the citizens of your county. I know two attorneys in this area, one a prosecuting DA and one a personal injury attorney that serve as reserve officers. I admire both of them as well.

I can think of an instance where reckless discharged should have been applied to a pair of officers in my area. Man was drunkenly driving a lawn mower. When lit up he pointed what turned out to be a BB gun in the officers' direction. No argument on the officers firing; they perceived a threat and justly attempted to neutralize the perp, they however fired 13 shots, hitting him three times, and sending their misses into a parking garage, damaging several vehicles, luckily not hitting any innocent bystanders.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

I'm new to this forum, but I'll put my 2 cents in on carrying 1911s. I have a Dan Wesson VBob Combat Commander that is a beautiful handgun with the lightest, smoothest trigger you can imagine, and it is extremely accurate and completely reliable. It is however, heavy, big and hard to conceal. I much prefer to carry my Glock 26, or my S&W 649, especially in the summer months. The Glock and the Smith are also a lot easier to maintain and I don't get as concerned with surface dings. As much as I love the 1911, I guess I prefer to leave it at home.

I like how my 1911 is big and heavy, better for to pistolwhip a punka--
Though on a serious note, I find the two and a half or so lbs comforting, I like knowing my pistol is there.

 

[cmort666]

Around here, backup can be miles away as well.

My thoughts on ammo supply is that in the very few extended shootings I have studied (never been in one and do not want to be), the bad guy had rifles. LEO going to the car was picked off. Handguns were useless at those distances. This was brought out in both the Miami and L.A shootings. Sadly, most drawn out shootings leave LEO injured or dead. The only officer I personally know to run a gun (Glock 17) dry was placed on 45 day suspension for Reckless Discharge of his sidearm. All he did was fire at a car trying to run him over in an effort to flee a felony crime. I have met, dealt with, worked with or for hundreds of officers over the years and not one ever had to change a mag during a shooting. I was wondering if you had.

And Thank you for the service you have provided the citizens of your county. I know two attorneys in this area, one a prosecuting DA and one a personal injury attorney that serve as reserve officers. I admire both of them as well.

The first Illinois State Policeman to use his S&W Model 39 when they were first issued (late '60s or early '70s) ran his gun dry. A guy pulled a gun on him during a routine traffic stop. As I recall the account in "Guns" (or "American Handgunner") he remembered only reaching for his firearm, then standing by the car with the slide locked back. I don't remember how many times he shot his assailant, but I think it was 7-8 times.

 

[oldman45]

I'm new to this forum, but I'll put my 2 cents in on carrying 1911s. I have a Dan Wesson VBob Combat Commander that is a beautiful handgun with the lightest, smoothest trigger you can imagine, and it is extremely accurate and completely reliable. It is however, heavy, big and hard to conceal. I much prefer to carry my Glock 26, or my S&W 649, especially in the summer months. The Glock and the Smith are also a lot easier to maintain and I don't get as concerned with surface dings. As much as I love the 1911, I guess I prefer to leave it at home.

First, welcome to the Forum and jump in any time with advice, questions or comments.

Now, I am going to ask you to do something for me. Please measure you DW Combat for width. Do the same for your Glock. Your Glock will be thicker. Common sense says thinner is more concealable. Now weigh each of them. The DW will be lighter. Weight is also a factor in concealed carry. Your admission on the trigger is also noted.

So with the scales of equality favoring the DW, why carry the Glock unless you just love ugly guns or figure if it gets lost, then nothing is going to be missed?

 

[oldman45]

The first Illinois State Policeman to use his S&W Model 39 when they were first issued (late '60s or early '70s) ran his gun dry. A guy pulled a gun on him during a routine traffic stop. As I recall the account in "Guns" (or "American Handgunner") he remembered only reaching for his firearm, then standing by the car with the slide locked back. I don't remember how many times he shot his assailant, but I think it was 7-8 times.

That is the way it is supposed to happen. But it was not a drawn out gun battle that lasted through several mags of ammo. It was impulsive shooting (which I am against due to it running a gun dry at a time that one may need another round) based on emotion.

Several years ago, I lost a friend in Shreveport, LA. He and another officer I know had been dispatched to a popular upscale restaurant for an alarm call. They knew they had an intruder but chose to not wait for the dog to arrive and went to clear the building themselves. The friend went into a restroom and was checking the stalls. As he opened one door, the intruder opened fire, killing the officer. The other officer came in and opened fire on the intruder. His gun empty, he grabbed the downed officer's gun and emptied it as well into the intruder. After it was long over, I spoke with the surviving officer. He did not remember anything other than initially shooting at the intruder and only learned what he did from the shooting team. It was not a shoot out but an emotional reaction. FWIW: He saved the taxpayers a lot of money with instant justice.

We carry spare tires in our vehicles. The probability of a flat is always there. We have smoke alarms in our homes with good reason.

But why weight one's self down with ammo that statistically will never be used? It is rough on the back and legs carrying added pounds of weight. The added mags can be a hinderence in a scuffle and possible source of injury. During a shootout, someone is going down before 100 rounds are fired. If it is a stand-off, then other officers will be there shortly. You would be shocked to see how fast long distances can be covered when an officer calls for assistance in a shots fired call.

From what I have studied, the drawbacks to carrying added ammo outweighs the potential for need. But then each to his own.

 

[wihunter]

If you can successfully completely conceal a 1911 my hat is off to you. I sure couldn't.

The largest of my Glocks that I can properly conceal are my 30 or my 36, depending on what I'm wearing. But they take a little effort and thought. A lightweight J-frame is a no-brainer, usually.

It is so easy to conceal a 1911. I use a crossbreed super tuck and can totally conceal with a t shirt.

 

[MP1SG]

I have a Kimber Pro Carry II, S&W 1911 PD, Para LTC and a Colt Combat Commander all 4" 1911's.

All these weapons are fine EDC guns, They Conceal well, are very accurate, light to carry all day and pretty easy to shoot. BUT they are about 99% reliable.
MY Glock and M&P's conceal well, are very accurate, light to carry all day and are TOTALLY 100% reliable all day long.

I like my 1911's very much, But i love my Glocks and M&P's

 

[wihunter]

The best carry gun is the one "you" are the most comfortable with. My brother has an M&P, XD and a 1911 he carrier his 1911 most malfunctions are the shooter not the gun, so carry what you are most proficient with.

 

[cochise]

I have found instructing students, the revolver is the best gun for shooters. They take their time shooting and their gun handling is safer.

If shooting strictly for accuracy, I can out shoot any of my friends with their $2,500+ auto with my $500 S&W N frame revolver.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

A 1911 has been around for 100 yrs. Glock has 25 yrs and been remodeled four times. Not a factor in a gun fight

A 1911 does not go KaBoom as do Glock. Purely speculative

For the most part, a 1911 will increase in value while a Glock will never increase in worth. Not a factor in a gun fight

A 1911 looks better than a Glock and can be customized to the owners taste. Not a factor in a gun fight

A 1911 is ergonomically correct and a Glock is not. Not a factor

A 1911 is not prone to limp wristing. Maybe you do not limp wrist your Glock now but what happens if your hand is injured?


A 1911 is not made of plastic. Not a factor

Makers of 1911 guns did not have to give away their guns to get law enforcement business. Now since Glock stopped that, departments are leaving Glock. Speculative

I agree with your "not a factor" assessments.

Please measure you DW Combat for width. Do the same for your Glock. Your Glock will be thicker. Common sense says thinner is more concealable. Now weigh each of them. The DW will be lighter. Weight is also a factor in concealed carry. Your admission on the trigger is also noted.

So with the scales of equality favoring the DW, why carry the Glock unless you just love ugly guns or figure if it gets lost, then nothing is going to be missed?

Looks like the Glock 26 is significantly slimmer and lighter than the V-Bob.

Oldman, What 1911s do you own that are significantly slimmer and lighter than the Glock 26? 1.18in and 19.75oz.

CZ-USA -> DAN WESSON V-Bob

Glock

 

[oldman45]

I agree with your "not a factor" assessments.



Looks like the Glock 26 is significantly slimmer and lighter than the V-Bob.

Oldman, What 1911s do you own that are significantly slimmer and lighter than the Glock 26? 1.18in and 19.75oz.

CZ-USA -> DAN WESSON V-Bob

Glock

Either of my 1911 S&W are more than 1/4 inch slimmer and many of the 1911 S&W line is lighter as well.

Have you considered being a mod for Glock?

 

[Doug M.]

The KaBoom history is not speculative; it is well documented. The ergonomic issues are not a modest problem if they impact the person trying to use it. Cosmetic and retaied value stuff are not factors, I agree. LE leaving Glock behind may or may not be correct; in some cases, I know that the M&P in 40 has done well in comparison to the G22/G23 platforms and several agencies have transitioned. The manufacturers are being generous with the cost issue, and I think that is more or less universal.

 

[APS]

I don't know. Anything IWB for me isn't "comfortable" and 1/4" won't make a difference. A 1/4" in width will not be the deciding factor as to whether or not someone will notice the gun on you. In a holster like an MTAC where you don't feel the width of the gun weight of the gun is the only factor.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Either of my 1911 S&W are more than 1/4 inch slimmer and many of the 1911 S&W line is lighter as well.

Have you considered being a mod for Glock?

More than a 1/4in less than 1.18in? That would be less than .93in wide... about the width of a LC9 pocket pistol. I have some slim grips at .116in, but that would still make the frame almost exactly an inch on both my Colt and Kimber 1911. The slides are .93, but the thumb safety and slide stops make the pistols significantly wider. How did you get your S&W 1911s to the width of a LC9 pocket pistol? You mentioned ergonomics... Being a good sized fellow, do you really like a grip on your 1911s so thin at less than .93?

What are these many S&W 1911s that are lighter than a Glock 26 at 19.75oz ?

 

[kennyb]

I can think of an instance where reckless discharged should have been applied to a pair of officers in my area. Man was drunkenly driving a lawn mower. When lit up he pointed what turned out to be a BB gun in the officers' direction. No argument on the officers firing; they perceived a threat and justly attempted to neutralize the perp, they however fired 13 shots, hitting him three times, and sending their misses into a parking garage, damaging several vehicles, luckily not hitting any innocent bystanders.

you have obviously never had a weapon pointed your way or been involved in a gunfight...if you had you would know better

 

[cmort666]

But why weight one's self down with ammo that statistically will never be used? It is rough on the back and legs carrying added pounds of weight. The added mags can be a hinderence in a scuffle and possible source of injury. During a shootout, someone is going down before 100 rounds are fired. If it is a stand-off, then other officers will be there shortly. You would be shocked to see how fast long distances can be covered when an officer calls for assistance in a shots fired call.

From what I have studied, the drawbacks to carrying added ammo outweighs the potential for need. But then each to his own.

When carrying my Norinco M1911, I almost always carry at least one extra magazine.

If you have only one magazine, and it fails, you're going to have a VERY bad day, trying to defend yourself with a single shot pistol that's harder to load than a Trapdoor Springfield.