1917 question

[skyraider]

After reading about 1917's tonight and looking mine over, I have some questions for those of you who know far more about these guns than I do (and that includes most of you reading this!).

The serial # on mine is 112953. It's marked on the butt below the lanyard swivel, on the back of the cylinder and on the flat on the bottom of the barrel above the ejector. There's a tiny flaming bomb on the upper rear of the right side of the frame. It has smooth walnut grips like a Military gun and the butt of the gun says US ARMY MODEL 1917. the barrel says S&W D.A. 45 on the left side and Smith and Wesson on the right side.

However, there's no United States Property on the bottom of the barrel and the patent info on the top of the barrel is different than what the huge Smith and Wesson book says it should say.

Any opinions? Is it possible that S&W failed to put on some of the rollmarks? Since the barrel has the same serial # as the cylinder and the butt, it's unlikely that it has been rebarreled.

Any input is appreciated.

Paul Moore
Colorado Springs CO

 

[DCWilson]

Actually, there were periods when S&W would put the frame number of a gun on replacement parts when the gun came back for repair. So you can't be sure that the gun was not rebarreled. I have a couple of revolvers (but not 1917s) that got this treatment.

How do the patent dates on top of the barrel differ from what you expected?

 

[skyraider]

My bad--I misread the book. Mine says exactly what the S&W book says.

So maybe it has been rebarreled.

Paul

 

[Oyeboteb]

Can you post some images?

 

[Hondo44]

Look for a date on the left grip frame or a star by the butt serial #.

 

[skyraider]

Later today I will look for marks that might indicate factory reworking of the gun and see if I can take some photos that show what I am talking about.

This morning I called Mike Pacella and told him about the gun. He told me that this serial # is a fairly late gun and it's entirely possible that it was put together from parts at the factory and sold as I now see it.

 

[DCWilson]

If I understand correctly, we have determined that the only anomalous feature of this gun is the lack of the "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" rollmark on the underside of the barrel.

There seem to be only two possibilities:

The "property" rollmark was not applied in the first place, either inadvertently or because of an ad hoc decision on marking day.

The "property" rollmark was polished off by a subsequent owner of the gun.

If the rollmark was removed, the gun (or at least the barrel) would probably have been reblued to keep a consistent finish on it. If there are no signs of a barrel refinish (one of which would involve minor differences in diameter where the mark was removed), then it is likelier that this gun simply didn't get the complete rollmark package when it was produced. You probably don't even need a micrometer to measure out-of-roundness. Just put your thumb and a couple of fingertips on the barrel behind the front sight and rotate the barrel. You should feel a flat spot or wane in the steel if some has been removed.

 

[skyraider]

Can you post some images?

Here is a link to some photos:

https://picasaweb.google.com/109423647396289117488/SWModel1917


Something else I noticed, and it really makes Mike's explanation look plausible. The bluing is a little different on the barrel--a tiny bit darker and shinier. It's not something that you would really notice if you weren't examining the gun closely. I have owned it for six months and never noticed it previously.

I think this gun was assembled out of parts they had at the factory. The frame is a late WWI serial number, and could easily have been a leftover after the war. The barrel could be a civialian barrel that was numbered to the frame--thus, no United States Property on the bottom of the barrel. Two of my other S&W revolvers have been refinished, and this one doesn't look refinished.

Paul Moore
Colorado Springs CO

 

[skyraider]

Look for a date on the left grip frame or a star by the butt serial #.

Hi Jim,

Tonight I took the grips off and there are no markings indicating that the gun has had work done by the factory. My nickel bicycle gun was refinished by the factory and it has a tiny 5 pointed star and associated date on the left grip frame, but the 1917 has nothing like that.


Paul Moore