1917 target sights
- Thread starter Aussie Collector
- Start date
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From the limited photos it doesn't look exactly like a factory installation. But if it is factory the front sight blade, rear sight and the rear sight blade will be serial numbered to match the gun. They must be removed to see the stamped numbers. I'd start by removing the rear sight and if the full number is not stamped on the bottom of it, I would not look any further.
OP
Aussie Collector
Member
Thanks for the reply.
I posted quickly as I normally jump on S&Ws that are rare or unique, this one just did not look right.
So I held back asking the question here.
It seams the gun has been incorrectly identified. Sold as a 1917, on speaking to the seller I believe it's a 38M&P target. Still a rare one.
I posted quickly as I normally jump on S&Ws that are rare or unique, this one just did not look right.
So I held back asking the question here.
It seams the gun has been incorrectly identified. Sold as a 1917, on speaking to the seller I believe it's a 38M&P target. Still a rare one.
If (IF!!) the sight blade can be removed (only) by removing a windage screw, and sliding the blade out, it's the correct sight for the period. If both windage screws must be loosened substantially such that the blade can be removed by lifting it out, it isn't.
If you want to know without any messing with screws, the period correct sight carrier will have a slot running from the screw hole to the top of the carrier------and the later sight carrier won't.
All that said, a later sight (permitting lifting the blade out) can easily be installed in an earlier gun. The later sight came along in the early 1930's.
And as already noted, a gun (hand ejector) which left the factory with target sights will carry the serial number----that is any/all sights preceding the so-called micrometer adjustable (which requires no fitting).
This applies to either/any frame size.
Done and done!
Ralph Tremaine
And after sitting and staring at the pictures, it appears to be a period correct sight (for a 1917----or anything else from the earlier period).
If you want to know without any messing with screws, the period correct sight carrier will have a slot running from the screw hole to the top of the carrier------and the later sight carrier won't.
All that said, a later sight (permitting lifting the blade out) can easily be installed in an earlier gun. The later sight came along in the early 1930's.
And as already noted, a gun (hand ejector) which left the factory with target sights will carry the serial number----that is any/all sights preceding the so-called micrometer adjustable (which requires no fitting).
This applies to either/any frame size.
Done and done!
Ralph Tremaine
And after sitting and staring at the pictures, it appears to be a period correct sight (for a 1917----or anything else from the earlier period).
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What are the scallopped decorative pieces along the sides of the rear sight?I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before, I'm pretty sure that can't be factory? Is that something used to conceal a fixed sight frame gun converted to an adjustable sight gun?
I see an engraved hand ejector with gold inlay...
More pictures showing the entire gun, please!
-Bill
More pictures showing the entire gun, please!
-Bill
Large hole push up sights ran from 1907 to around 1915, so if original, the sights date the gun. If a K frame it is not rare, but certainly scarce and if engraving is factory, a bigger value adder. I think the sight is factory and likely original, but numbers do the trick. From experience, the front screw is notoriously hard to remove, so I typically start with the sight blade.
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It would be helpful to have the serial number of the gun.
I find that the easiest way to think about the date of the adjustable rear sight assembly is to look at a sideview that shows a windage screw. If the sight blade comes all the way down to the top of the windage screw, its the earlier design, that requires removal of one of the two windage screws, so that the blade can be slid out.
The pictures, as posted, are not clear enough, to tell if the blade comes all the way down to the windage screw.
Mike Priwer
I find that the easiest way to think about the date of the adjustable rear sight assembly is to look at a sideview that shows a windage screw. If the sight blade comes all the way down to the top of the windage screw, its the earlier design, that requires removal of one of the two windage screws, so that the blade can be slid out.
The pictures, as posted, are not clear enough, to tell if the blade comes all the way down to the windage screw.
Mike Priwer
Gary's right, the front screw is a wooly-booger; so you have to get sneaky about it!
1. Elevate the sight carrier to expose the channel in the frame top strap where the sight tang rides.
2. Prop the gun in an upright position, with the front sight lower than the rear sight. (Just stick the grip frame in a vise.)
3. Pour a dose of your favorite screw unsticker juice into the sight tang channel (where it will run down to the front screw---and have IMMEDIATE access to the screw threads).
4. Go play with your children's mother for a spell while the unsticker juice does it's thing. (Kroil works great!!)
5. Remove the screw. (Given the size of the screw, and the inability to hold onto a jeweler's screwdriver with anything besides your fingers, stop by Lowes, and pick up a Kobalt Precision Screwdriver Set (#0525844). (One of the four flat blade screwdrivers in the set fits the screw just fine----and the handles are big enough to hold onto with your hands.)
Note: The price of this set of 10 screwdrivers suggests they're junk----not so! I've been using them for a looooooooong time---and they're good to go!
Done and done---unless your children's mother isn't through with you yet.
Ralph Tremaine
It really isn't done! Don't even think about trying to remove the screw until AFTER you've lowered the sight carrier----all the way down!
1. Elevate the sight carrier to expose the channel in the frame top strap where the sight tang rides.
2. Prop the gun in an upright position, with the front sight lower than the rear sight. (Just stick the grip frame in a vise.)
3. Pour a dose of your favorite screw unsticker juice into the sight tang channel (where it will run down to the front screw---and have IMMEDIATE access to the screw threads).
4. Go play with your children's mother for a spell while the unsticker juice does it's thing. (Kroil works great!!)
5. Remove the screw. (Given the size of the screw, and the inability to hold onto a jeweler's screwdriver with anything besides your fingers, stop by Lowes, and pick up a Kobalt Precision Screwdriver Set (#0525844). (One of the four flat blade screwdrivers in the set fits the screw just fine----and the handles are big enough to hold onto with your hands.)
Note: The price of this set of 10 screwdrivers suggests they're junk----not so! I've been using them for a looooooooong time---and they're good to go!
Done and done---unless your children's mother isn't through with you yet.
Ralph Tremaine
It really isn't done! Don't even think about trying to remove the screw until AFTER you've lowered the sight carrier----all the way down!
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OP
Aussie Collector
Member
Serial number is in the 38 military & police third issue. 150923.
OP
Aussie Collector
Member
The sights are interesting and factory would be nice but, I'd buy it for the engraving. Sure would like to see more pictures of the entire gun.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
Jeff
SWCA #1457
OP
Aussie Collector
Member
I have bought it for the engraving.
I should have it in hand in a few days and will post up pictures.
I believe the sights are factory.
Unfortunately I think the engraving could be Spanish.
Congratulations
Look forward to more pictures
A target sighted 45 is always a good thing in my book.
Look forward to more pictures
A target sighted 45 is always a good thing in my book.
In post #10, Aussie Collector said that is a .38.
Serial number 150923 should be a 1910 gun, possibly a 1911 gun. The change to the rear sight blade configuration is later than that, so this gun should have the earlier rear sight assembly, in which the blade comes all the way down to the windage screws.
Thanks for posting the serial number.
Regards, Mike Priwer
Thanks for posting the serial number.
Regards, Mike Priwer
