1932 38/44

[Gdogman]

Good morning everyone!

Need some help on value......I own very little Pre-Ware guns so I would be guessing as to value. Considering buying this Outdoorsman from a friend. Of course I want a great deal but I also want to be fair as he asked me to figure out a price for this. So I reach out to the brain trust.

He had it lettered back in 2010 and he has owned it for 30 years. Previously it was owned by another officer that has long been deceased so it is unknown if he was the original owner.

All numbers match and here is the closing information on the letter from Roy Jinks.

We have researched your Smith & Wesson .38144 Outdoorsman pre-World War II Variation, caliber .38 S&W Special, in company records which indicate that your handgun, with serial number 40XXX was shipped from our factory on January 29, 1932, and delivered to Baker - Hamilton & pacific Hardware Co., San Francisco, CA. The records indicate that this revolver was shipped with a 6.5 inch barrel equipped with a Patridge front sight, blue finish, and checkered walnut grips. This shipment was for 7 units and they were billed at $26.52 each.

Any information would be helpful.

What would you ask for it if you were selling the gun?
What would you pay if you were looking for one?

Thanks again!!!

Gil
Gdogman

 

[Modified]

The non-factory re-finish hurts the value significantly. If the action is good it should still be a nice shooter, but as to to value that finish puts it something around $600, maybe more to someone who doesn't recognize the re-finish or the incorrect stocks (which are older then the gun).

It's a gun that I wouldn't buy unless I paid a price you are happy with and don't intend to do anything other then keep it for a long time, as a shooter.

 

[DWalt]

Yes, refinished and stocks are over a decade too early for it. It's a shooter only, not collectible, and I'd also say not much more than $500-$700 to someone who recognizes it for what it is.

 

[StrawHat]

What am I missing? I do not see washed out stampings, flattened rounds, nor rounded flats. How is this piece not original finish?

Thank you.

Kevin

 

[RKmesa]

I love the pre-war Outdoorsman and find them to be some of the most elegant revolvers ever made. So keep in mind my bias as you read the rest of my thoughts. In spite of the grips being too early, I think they look great on that gun. The left side does give me some "refinished" concern (namely some of the edges look a little less crisp and the bluing looks a bit "cloudy"), but it may be the photos. On the other hand, the rebound stud head does not appear to be flattened, which often happens with a re-polish and refinish.

I think it is a beauty, and even if it is refinished and has the wrong grips, it IS a pre-war target sighted N-Frame and I believe that it is worth at least $650 - $750 minimum. If its finish is original, it is worth $850 minimum.

My thoughts, not worth very much, but you asked,

 

[Old_Cop]

I like the gun and think that it would be in the neighborhood of $1200 at a show in PA. If GDogman is in California the limited availability raises the price. Now the grips are nice but wrong, but it is a beautiful presentation. If it is refinished, but not by S&W, then $750 or so. I'm no expert, just my opinion.

 

[LLOYD17]

Proud pins and sharp roll marks. The lower edge of the side plate is a slight maybe but otherwise I'm not seeing a reblue other than it's a great looking deep blue. Was factory blueing a little more black in color at that time? Condition of the case coloring matches the finish I think. Also, those stocks are probably $200 by themselves so I'd say that plus $750 for the gun.

 

[daddio202]

I am also missing the refinish signs?? The end of barrel has holster wear on it from being carried. The finishes back in the 30's were definitely a more black like color. The gun looks good and original to my eyes. I am also in the $750 range as far as value because it is not perfect and wrong but beautiful stocks. Make sure a 357 cartridge will not seat into cylinder all the way because if somebody reamed it out along the way the value drops to the $500 range if lucky. She is pretty nice and I would not mind at all being the owner. It can be fondled and enjoyed and also shot without any worry of degrading value. good luck on the purchase.

 

[Modified]

Proud pins and sharp roll marks. The lower edge of the side plate is a slight maybe but otherwise I'm not seeing a reblue other than it's a great looking deep blue. Was factory blueing a little more black in color at that time? Condition of the case coloring matches the finish I think. Also, those stocks are probably $200 by themselves so I'd say that plus $750 for the gun.

Look closely at the pin, it's not proud, just not polished completely flat. It's still polished. Note how there's some dishing around it. This pin wasn't removed prior to polishing.

Also note the dishing on the S&W symbol, that should be extremely sharp.

All of the markings aren't as sharp they should be for a gun that wasn't re-finished.

I'm not saying it wasn't a decent job, but it's not a factory job, and it's most certainly not original.

 

[runscott]

As far as the grips being wrong, aren't the ones on the gun worth as much as the ones that should be on it? i.e, he could eventually trade for correct grips.

 

[DWalt]

The other thing is that the finish does not appear to be the glossy Bright Blue of an original factory finish of that time. You might check if there is a factory service date stamp on the left side of the grip frame. Regarding the grips, 1930s round top grips with the silver medallion for an N-frame are quite scarce, and a nice pair would probably sell for somewhat more than the earlier deep-dish gold medallion style on it, even though they appear to be in pretty good condition also. Not very many N-frames were made during the 1930s. The fact that the grips are not at least period-correct to the revolver does have a deflating effect on its value, even though this one has little collector appeal anyway.

 

[StrawHat]

Thank you all for your insights. Some of it I understand, some, not really. I have seen new revolvers with less clear stamping. The pin, I do see that. I am not so familiar with the bluing of the era so I will take that under advisement.

One of the reasons I enjoy his site is it is educational. I thank you again for sharing your knowledge with me.

Kevin

 

[paplinker]

Is it me or does it look like the rear sight blade has two vertical lines and a ring in between?
Could be my aging eyes.

Could be the pics but appears a refinish by what I see. Even the cutout where the rear sight sits in above the hammer looks not quite sharp.

Still I think 750 is not out of line if I saw a factory rework date stamp on the inside.

 

[Modified]

Is it me or does it look like the rear sight blade has two vertical lines and a ring in between?
Could be my aging eyes.

Could be the pics but appears a refinish by what I see. Even the cutout where the rear sight sits in above the hammer looks not quite sharp.

Still I think 750 is not out of line if I saw a factory rework date stamp on the inside.

The lines look like the kind you see on a King blade, but usually they would outline the base of the blade too. The thing that seems wrong there is that the blade is set so low (maybe modified?) so as to set the bottom of the sight outline down in the sight.

Thank you all for your insights. Some of it I understand, some, not really. I have seen new revolvers with less clear stamping. The pin, I do see that. I am not so familiar with the bluing of the era so I will take that under advisement.

One of the reasons I enjoy his site is it is educational. I thank you again for sharing your knowledge with me.

Kevin

I learned this the hard way after buying a couple refinished guns

If you could compare this gun side by side to one with an original finish you would see immediately what the differences are.

The thing is that this was a rather good re-finish. One of the better non-factory ones I've seen. I can see why someone might think it wasn't refinished.

 

[Gdogman]

More pictures

Alot of great information. Based on what was being said, I had some more pictures sent to me. Here are some pictures with the grips removed showing some stamping on the frame. These pictures also show two holsters that came with the gun.

 

[Gdogman]

Holster pictures

Here are the two holsters. Appears like this was carried on duty?

 

[Modified]

I don't know the values of the holsters, the flap holster I don't know anything about, the other holster...

Lets just say that guys who still think its a good idea to have to put your finger on the trigger to draw the gun get mad when I talk about it. That's a safety speed holster.

The holster has this massive spring in it, and the button to release the clamshell and violently open the holster is also a block for the trigger. So you grasp the gun, and put your finger in the trigger guard, on the trigger, and the whole contraption springs open, leaving you pointing the gun down, hopefully holding it, with your finger on the trigger.

Assuming of course something doesn't hit or jiggle the button and cause the contraption to open itself, without you holding your gun, causing it to clatter to the ground.

They are hilarious, fun, and in my opinion dangerous.

As to the gun:

This picture is another sign of a re-finish. The edge of the side plate is too pronounced. On an original gun that seam will be barely visible.

You can see how perfect it is more on the right side, to the front of the gun, but on the bottom it's pronounced, as it is on the left. This is because when they polished the plate they slightly rounded the edge, making the seam more visible.


I have to say, once again, this is a very good re-finish. It's a lot like a gun that I got burned on.

 

[mh51]

I'll withhold comment about a refinish. I'm no expert, and light and camera angles can play tricks that disappear when you see it in person. As far as the sideplate seam, I have bought guns where the sideplate screws had worked loose from use, and when they were tightened the seam became almost invisible again.
Despite the incorrect stocks, pre-war Outdoorsman are scarce in my part of the country and I suspect it would be worth $900.00.

 

[lestert357]

FWIW, I would suspect a refinish based on the below picture. On my screen the cylinder seems to have a slight purple color. Also the trademark, cylinder flute, and frame edges do not appear as sharp as they should. And finally the entire finish seems to have a sheen to it that I would not expect to see with original finish.

 

[rct269]

A word or two or six or eight about the color of bluing--------and these words come from Turnbull, not me. I was just standing there with a very funky cylinder in one hand and an exquisite rest of the gun in the other hand------listening to why they couldn't/wouldn't try to do the cylinder to match the (60 year old) gun: "Bluing is a living thing---it's a product of its environment. We can do that cylinder, and it will look exactly as it did 60 years ago----but it will not look like the gun looks now------the color. Now, if we did that cylinder 50 times, varying things each time----the (caustic) material, the time, the temperature, we MIGHT match the gun two times out of those fifty tries. How do you like those odds?"

I allowed as how I didn't like them very much, and we got back in the truck, and headed back to Watkins Glen.

As an aside, I was once standing and staring at an equisite 8" NM #3 target at a CADA show in Lexington, Kentucky----EXQUISITE---and the only one I'd ever seen---up close and personal. It was the color of an old pair of Levi's----old but well cared for. I had a similar gun at home---one of those sock drawer things that's almost black. Standing there at Turnbull's, I understood what the man was telling me.

Ralph Tremaine